flyfisher Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 Ok plant gurus I'm at a loss as to why I can't get stem plants to grow in my tank.I can grow just about anything else but stem plants quickly fade away and rot usually just above the surface of the substrate. Setup is as follows: 75g 2" of flourite red topped with 1"of plain gravel. 2 x fluval 405 1 x normal discharge at the surface,1 x DIY discharge is hooked up with a Hydor 300 watt so warm water is discharged across substrate and helps with circulation throughout the tank. 1 x aquaticlife with two new coralife 54 watt 6700K lamps sitting on OEM legs 4" above a glass top. I use a modified(when I remember LOL) EI to dose with WC every week to 10 days,root tabs,& excel/mericide. So I have tried two types of Hygro,water sprite,ludwigia all meet with same results rotted stems and leaves every where. Present stock Red Melon swords, Amazon swords, Java fern, Java moss 2 types of Aponogetons & Spiral vals all are thriving Apons are even flowering. So what am I doing wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesbarr Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 I wouldnt name myself a guru but Ill throw in my 2 cents. IME stem plants grow best with a rich water column. I had moneywort in my tank for a long time, and it did nothing. Didnt die, didnt grow. It annoyed me to be sure. After some research, on here and other places, I found out that most stem plants (depends which ones you are trying to grow) feed prominently from the water column. This means that while they will benefit some what from the sub, they wont benefit from it as much as the plants you listed above that you say are doing well. They are loving your flourite. I added my moneywort to my walstad tank, which is a high nutrient system and now they are doing awesome. Ive been able to cut them in half and plant the trimmings and they are growing well there too. My hygrophilia does little in my normal tank as well, but again in my walstad they are growing really well. Not to the point of trimming yet, but well. Im not telling you that you need to convert to the Walstad Method, thats just the only personal experience I can draw from with these plants. A friend of mine has moneywort in his tank (its where I got mine from) and he has plain gravel in his tank but his moneywort is outrageous. He probably has about 3 times the fish a person should in a 30 gallon so his water column is just loaded with nutrients. His other column feeders are all doing really well actually. One of those tanks that make guys like you and I (people to care for their tanks) mad because He is so lazy but his tanks look stupid nice lol. When it comes to ludwigia I have had no success either so far. I got a stem from a member just recently and its still alive so fingers crossed. From what I can gather ludwigia is classed as an easy plant but needs high light. Not my experience yet, maybe someone else will be able to tell you something about this plant that I dont know, which would appear to be anything For your lighting I will just link you a thread on here started by ubroke. It has a nifty chart in the start of it you may find useful. http://albertaaquatica.com/index.php?showtopic=31834 Ive never used EI at all so I am no help for that. I do see a thread here as well tho that may be useful to you started my ckmullin. http://albertaaquatica.com/index.php?showtopic=36127 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurensdad Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 (edited) Stem plants get 80-90% of there nutrients from the water in the tank and not in the substrate . so root tabs are not much help at all. The roots are just there to hold it in place. When you plant a stem plant you want to take off the growth on the last 2 or 3 nodes and then just sick it in the ground can be a pain in the a$$ to get them to stay there. When splitting a stem plant I want 6 to 7 nodes of growth for it to work. A node is the stick part then the bump that the leafs grow out of.What I try and do is put the stem stuff at the back of your tank and let it go around heaters and stuff it will hide the stuff and helps to stop the fish from pulling them out. the one thing that will damage some stem plants is cold water how do you do your water changes? If your in Edmonton you can stop buy and get a bit of freehardy plant that grows like weed Edited March 22, 2013 by laurensdad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvision Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 Are you saying that you have 54W of light over your 75gal? And, I'm guessing that your tank is around 20" deep? IMO, you need more light. How is your Metricide dosing? Are you following the 1/2 dose of Excel? If you're overdosing, it may be causing the melting, tho I would think the Val would be the first to melt... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted March 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 (edited) Are you saying that you have 54W of light over your 75gal? And, I'm guessing that your tank is around 20" deep? IMO, you need more light. How is your Metricide dosing? Are you following the 1/2 dose of Excel? If you're overdosing, it may be causing the melting, tho I would think the Val would be the first to melt... 2 x 54 Watt according to pinned PAR chart I should be at a high light level As for excel/mericide dosing I follow directions for the excel half that when using mericide.I started out with half doses and work my way up to avoid melting the vals they are happily sending out runners and taking over one corner of my tank. Edited March 22, 2013 by flyfisher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted March 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 Stem plants get 80-90% of there nutrients from the water in the tank and not in the substrate . so root tabs are not much help at all. The roots are just there to hold it in place. When you plant a stem plant you want to take off the growth on the last 2 or 3 nodes and then just sick it in the ground can be a pain in the a$$ to get them to stay there. When splitting a stem plant I want 6 to 7 nodes of growth for it to work. A node is the stick part then the bump that the leafs grow out of. What I try and do is put the stem stuff at the back of your tank and let it go around heaters and stuff it will hide the stuff and helps to stop the fish from pulling them out. the one thing that will damage some stem plants is cold water how do you do your water changes? If your in Edmonton you can stop buy and get a bit of free hardy plant that grows like weed I do dose the the tank with NPK & trace, root tabs are used under the root feeders,I try to keep N at around 20ppm.When I do WC I use a Python and adjust water temp.to match tank approx.78F Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 You might be damageing the stem cells pushing them in the grave. Try sand and taking a 10 inch stem and grab the middle bend it and plant just the middle and leave 2 ends exposed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted March 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 Changing to sand might be something in the future I do like it in some of my non planted tanks.As for damaging plants pushing it into the gravel interesting idea worth a try thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurensdad Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 Have you ever just let them float in your tank for a week or 2? Till there is.new growth might work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubr0ke Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 stem plants start to rot in hopes of breaking off and floating to a more favourable environment in nature. So its a process of elimination. Lights, nutrients, carbon. You have enough light and the plants you listed have a lower demand for co2. Nutrients are what i would say is you issue. Start dosing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted March 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 stem plants start to rot in hopes of breaking off and floating to a more favourable environment in nature. So its a process of elimination. Lights, nutrients, carbon. You have enough light and the plants you listed have a lower demand for co2. Nutrients are what i would say is you issue. Start dosing more. Makes scents time to reread dosing calculator and hit the tank with more ferts.WC tomorrow so perfect time to reset and grow some stems. Thanks everybody much appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishclubgirl Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 I'm going to give you some other food for thought. As your other plants are doing well, perhaps your stem plants are being outcompeted by the other plants for lights and nutrients?? My other suggestions would be to change your bulbs and use a basic fertiliser 2 times a week(after water changes). I'm a big fan of the KISS principle... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted March 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 Thanks FCG I like your idea of the KISS method but just wasn't working so I have begun tinkering with some of the parameters. I agree with the idea of others out competing for nutrients but not sure on the lights, stems are planted in a rather bare section that I was hoping to fill in with something different than the rest of the plants.You mentioned about changing the bulbs I'm curious. On another note the Apons from Plant Guy are growing like crazy and have begun flowering this species is fast becoming one of my favorites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishclubgirl Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 Thanks FCG I like your idea of the KISS method but just wasn't working so I have begun tinkering with some of the parameters. I agree with the idea of others out competing for nutrients but not sure on the lights, stems are planted in a rather bare section that I was hoping to fill in with something different than the rest of the plants.You mentioned about changing the bulbs I'm curious. On another note the Apons from Plant Guy are growing like crazy and have begun flowering this species is fast becoming one of my favorites. Aponogetons are one of my faves so that's awesome to hear!! As for changing the bulbs, T-5s do have a longer effective life than T-12s but it might help to kick start the stem plants. Just a thought... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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