Mighty Prawn Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 I personally prefer captive bred, and if I could, would only ever have captive bred. I don't like supporting capture of animals from the wild. That's what eventually led to poaching. -Hideo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 (edited) For every fish caught in the Rift Lakes for the ornamental fish trade, there are several TONS of fish removed for food. I'm thinking that if I was a fish, I'd much rather prefer to spend my senior years in someones aquarium, especially someone who doled out some serious $ for me, than end up getting eaten by a native. Stuart Grant addresses this issue on his FAQ page here: http://www.lakemalawi.com/index.htm Lots more links & info on the commercial fisheries on Lake Malawi can be found here: http://www.fao.org/documents/advanced_s_re...D&agrovoc=,4532 The site below will give you a pretty good idea of how many TONS of fish are removed from Lake Tanganyika each year. http://members.tripod.com/tanganyika/id35.htm The fish removed for the aquarium trade are a drop in the ocean in comparison, and were it not for the exportation of these wild fish, and the people who make their livelihoods exporting, as well as importing these fish, just imagine how rich the selection at your LFS or local aquarium club would be. Edited January 18, 2006 by RD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wandj Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 Allow me to add my 2 cents. Just a week or so ago, I bought a group of Flametails from BA's for $16.99 (ok $17.00) each. I thought, a pretty good price for these little guys. They are obviously fry from someones breeding group and were only about 3/4 to 1 inch big. I thought....sure beats paying $100 for a wildcaught male. BTW, w/c females are only $30. ANYWAY, upon close inspection, this group did not have the rigor my other Peacock purchases were displaying. Some were skinny and all did not enjoy their food as much as they should have. (And the other Peacock fry groups I bought were doing great). Now here's the kicker: 2 of the little Flametails were DEFORMED! The pectorals fins, the ones that stick straight out the sides of the fish, not the ones underneath, were pointing straight DOWN! On these 2, it looked like they were clapping their fins together when they swam around! So there is a fine example of captive bred for you! I did mention it to the staff when I went in again, as I had to have a Ruby Red fry replaced because she died the first day. (Oh, and one of my Ruby Reds had a deformed eye, but we all know they are line-bred and some of that is going to happen, and no, she will not be a breeder). After they gave me a new Ruby straight-across, which is nice because they usually don't do that, I bought some wild-caught Peacocks to add to the species I bought that were captive-bred. So I have seen how too much captive bred can do. I saw 2 deformed fish out of 6. Not very good odds....plus they were shy on vigor. If you want to talk to a Cichlid "expert", I think Luke knows his stuff. (He was not the one who caught my fish for my when I got those deformed ones). I live very far away, so did not return the deformed ones....and don't ask me to because I am going to keep them anyway. My 2 cents on the captive vs wildcaught. And hey, if you ever want to sell your Bicolor 500 w/c male, I will buy him from you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 (edited) So quit buying pizz poor stock from the local big box stores, and broaden your horizens a bit. Good quality flametails certainly aren't scarce, at least if you look beyond the big box stores in the Edmonton area. I heard from a reliable source that Golds curently has some stunning flametails in at the moment, and Albert will ship fish. Kyle has had F1 Ngara's for sale, and at one time offered his entire breeding group of WC Ngara flametails for I think $120. At that time nobody wanted them. BTW - even wild caught fish can throw the odd runt, and/or deformed fish. Edited January 20, 2006 by RD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nandopsis Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 *IMO* That's a perfect example of a poor aquarist and store for selling them. Anyone who breeds fish or sells them should cull the deformed ones imediately. I'am a firm beleiver in a good strain of tank raised fish are just as nice as any wild caught specimens, and probably better because they will have no issue eating prepared foods. Either way it is up to the individual who is buying these fish to choose which one they want and where to buy them. I personaly won't buy anything from BA's anymore because they sell sick and or deformed fish at a premium price, and that's a fact. That is not only dishonest, and dispicable but also a factor why Edmonton has such a poor fish gene pool to select from. We don't have the many great stores like calgary has and one of the only ways to get a good strain is to either travel to calgary of buy off a breeder who cares what they sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tc51 Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 Kyle has had F1 Ngara's for sale, and at one time offered his entire breeding group of WC Ngara flametails for I think $120. At that time nobody wanted them. F.Y.I. This group is now sold to yours truly Tom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 :thumbs: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 BTW - just so there's no misunderstnadings, unless I'm mistaken the OP of this thread is buying 'show males' for his 'display tank', not for breeding purposes, so buying wild caught fish is IMO kinda pointless, especially if those fish are only 2.5 inches. Some good quality F1 males could be had for a tiny fraction of the price that he's paying locally for wc fish, and neither acclimation nor feeding commercial foods would be an issue. But hey, it's his money ........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunl Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 You can cut this any 26,000 different ways that you like, but the bottom line is that there is a 100% chance of getting better quality fish for a lower price elsewhere. Easily. heard there was wild caught Cichlids there from someone on this forum. So I purchased the following, they are about 2.5" each. I hope that is a small estimation, because if it isn't, and they aren't quite 2.5", they're probably not wild caught. Most wild caught fish are not juvies - economically it doesn't make sense for them to catch and export juvies from the lakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 If you want an idea of what some WC peacocks look like, and their approx. sizes go here: http://www.lakemalawi.com/frames/cichlid_gallery.htm As far as I know Stuart Grant is still pretty much the only source of wc fish out of Malawi, at least being shipped to North America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vic Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 (edited) HHMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM - I guess Big Al's is off my list!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Being from Red Deer, our choices for the purchase of fish is rather limited. We have to big boxes and an independent that is far more interested in dogs. Edited January 20, 2006 by vic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 Hi Vic, a few of us here are also from Red Deer, myself included. Trust me, when it comes to quality fish at reasonable prices, it's well worth a day trip to Calgary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunl Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 Ditto. Make it a full day, as a brief stopover is never enough time.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
African_Fever Posted January 21, 2006 Report Share Posted January 21, 2006 I wish I was only an hour and a half out of Calgary like you Red Deer boys. Would make the day trips a lot less tiring! We've got nothing in the Hat for cichlids, so count your 1.5hr drive a good one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wandj Posted January 21, 2006 Report Share Posted January 21, 2006 I have just recently acquired an interest in Peacocks, so forgive me if I was not "into them" at the time there were some for sale by people here on the forum. However, now that I am "into them", I have posted in the Buy/Sell section. I am really sorry now that I missed the boat earlier. Do you expect me to stare at my plecos all day and not get tired of them? (OMG! It moved its tail!... or...LOOK HONEY, it came out of its cave!) :rofl: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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