Nate Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 Hey guys, Just wanted to let you know that the " IHeartU" parrots were not ordered! They were sent to us as replacement on some cichlids that a supplier was out of stock on. We were not aware that we were recieving them until they were in the air from singapore and there is really nothing much we can do about it at that point. I appreciate all of the concern, and we at Big Als understand that its is not "cool" but we are trying to get the animal to a good home and not would not like to have to destroy them. That is why the price is so low on the fish regular 89.99 on sale for 39.99. We are now offering them for 12.99 and would like to just sell them to good homes. If you guys know anyone who would give these fish a good home, and so we can get them out of the store, please tell them to give us a call and we can work something out for them. I hope we have not caused too much of a stir in the Calgary fishkeeping community. Note that the fish are just dyed, not tattooed or by means of hot or cold branding...they are just dyed. Not that it is much better, just thought I would clarify as it seems to be a topic that people were unsure of. Nate White Big Als Calgary Any questions about this you can feel free to call me at the store, Email me, or pm me We (as a couple) are the type of customers pet stores want. When we go out (sometimes a few times a week) we spend money on our hobby. We are happy to spend it but we look for a few things:1. Animal welfare: We will not spend money at a place which treats animals (in their care) poorly. 2. Price, selection and all the other stuff everyone else looks for We were at Petcetera a few weeks back to find the horror of Bettas in tiny sealed bags (with a couple of tablespoons of water) laying around without anyone putting them in water. The others in the cups had extremely bad water quality. We left disgusted! Unfortunatley emotion got away and I should have documented the situation and reported it to animal control. The next time I see this I will be sure to report it. Walmart in Marlborough has a bad habit of not removing dead fish. "Look mommy 24 dead fish!" As a result I will not buy fish there (because of the conditions the animals are left in). We picked up about a dozen "painted" tetras. For those who don't know these fish were acid dipped then put in a "die" to give them extra colour. We got them from Chums as they were going out of buisiness and I am sure they would not be replaced. They have been through allot and will be living out the rest of their lives with us (or with someone who promises to give them a good home). I will probably make a trip to Big Als tomorrow. To take pictures, document the situation and report it to animal control. I find it absolutely inexcusable someone would put any animal through excessive pain to make a buck!!! Dave I've got about 30 people now who previously shopped their, who will not be any longer. I'm on a mission! 30 people or so is probably peanuts to them, but whatever. -Hideo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishBrain Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 (edited) You sent me that PM "bigals_nate" and as you see from my reply. NO I will not tell people to buy them or even take them free. We dont care how you got them. SEND THEM BACK!!!! CULL them Something other than selling them. Cheap is just as bad. If you shipped them back wouldn't your supplier be a little more hessitant to ship them to you next time?? understand that its is not "cool thats an understatement Edited February 13, 2006 by Canadbis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midgetwaiter Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 (edited) We were at Petcetera a few weeks back to find the horror of Bettas in tiny sealed bags (with a couple of tablespoons of water) laying around without anyone putting them in water. The others in the cups had extremely bad water quality. We left disgusted! Unfortunatley emotion got away and I should have documented the situation and reported it to animal control. The next time I see this I will be sure to report it. The small bags are what Bettas are shipped in, they do well in that situation. Much better than most fish do in large roomy bags. Had they been sitting there for 5 minutes or hours? You don't know do you? I usually find Petcetera quite disapointing quality wise but the example is not a good reason to get upset. We picked up about a dozen "painted" tetras. For those who don't know these fish were acid dipped then put in a "die" to give them extra colour. We got them from Chums as they were going out of buisiness and I am sure they would not be replaced. They have been through allot and will be living out the rest of their lives with us (or with someone who promises to give them a good home). I will probably make a trip to Big Als tomorrow. To take pictures, document the situation and report it to animal control. I am almost disapointed that Nate posted his reply above, it would have been nice for a LFS to stand up and tell the truth for once. PEOPLE WANT THESE FISH. MOST PEOPLE DON'T CARE HOW THEY GOT THEIR COLOUR! Are dyed fish a bad thing? I think so. Are they even close to the worst thing that happens on a regular basis in the name of this hobby? No, they are not. As an example, of 50 W.C. fish from a river in South America how many make it into ahome where they can live out a natural lifespan? 5%? Maybe 10%? Dyed fish are not a big deal in comparison. I find it absolutely inexcusable someone would put any animal through excessive pain to make a buck!!! You don't think being yanked from a nice lake, jammed in a glass box 1/3 of the size it should be and fed crappy grain based sawdust (aka average flake food) is just as inexcusable? You may take good care of your fish but I'll bet 80% of the fish sold in the market are not afforded proper care. Either you decide you can live with that or you're a hypocrite. The whole hobby is an ethical disaster, focusing on dyed animals exclusively is bogus. Edited February 13, 2006 by midgetwaiter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogled Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 How come there's such an uproar about this kind of thing NOW? This whole thread is causing a riot. I'm sure this energy can be put towards helping homeless people here in Calgary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Prawn Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 How come there's such an uproar about this kind of thing NOW? This whole thread is causing a riot. I'm sure this energy can be put towards helping homeless people here in Calgary. You're right man... You can stay in my basement until you get back on your feet. ;-) -Hideo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toirtis Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 I have inserted a copy of the e-mail that I sent to the president of Big Al's; Excellent job....a similar letter to both Big Al's president and the shop in question from a lot of unhappy people would have an impact....best way to deal with such situations (no matter what the company) is to make your displeasure heard with a letter, and then vote with your dollar by not shopping there....but remember, if nobody bought these things, the shops would not carry them. As far as the SPCA/Humane Society ('Animal Control' is simply that, run by the city, and does not deal with humane issues) goes, they have no legislation that covers this sort of thing, and therefore have no power to do anything about it....especially since the dying/tattooing of the fish occurs overseas, outside any Canadian jurisdiction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lax_champ Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 (edited) 've got about 30 people now who previously shopped their, who will not be any longer. I'm on a mission! Make it 31! Edited February 17, 2006 by lax_champ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 Topic in question Hey guys, Just wanted to say to some of you thanks for the understanding. Yes the fish are sought after by many aquarists, and yes almost every store in Calgary including myslef have participated in having coloured fish in the store. These fish caused quite the uproar as they were new in the market however dyed fish have been around for a long time now. Hopefully a fad that will not take off. I have been told that they were sent to me due to overproduction of the fish in Asia and with the upcoming valentines day deadline they were just sent to me in replacement for another cichlid that was ordered. It is up to both the retailer and the end consumer to put an end to this fad by not purchasing the product. I have expressed how displeased I am with the supplier in them sending me these fish, and have told them what an uproar it has caused in the Calgary market. You can rest assured that it will not happen again. Cannabis, would you truly want to kill seemingly healthy fish if you were in my position? Or do you think you could use this as an opportunity to inform people on unethical behavior that is happening in the world? I am afraid however that I do not feel it is in the fishes best interest to be killed. The fish are healthy, they have made it through a horrible thing (the dyeing process) and I feel that they should be given a chance. Preaching that whats happened to them is cruel, and to kill them seems somewhat hypocritical to me personally. It is my choice to sell them off at a discounted rate to good homes around Calgary while also telling the customers that we do not agree with such actions. Sedning them back does not seem like agood poption for me either as they will more than likely incure resale and be promoted somewhere else in the world, not to mention there will be more cost than we have already payed. The decision I have made to sell them while teling customers about the ethical dilemma behind them is what I have chosen to do adn I will stand behind my decision until someone of higher authority than me tells me otherwise. As for the "down with Big Als" comments, these are not constructive and if someone would like to say something about the store or me, or someone in the store, or make suggestions, you can feel free to message me or call me at the store 640-0635. Nate White Big Als Aquarium Services Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reza Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 Let's not turn this thread into a VENDOR REVIEW, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Prawn Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 Why not? The vendor seems to be in here now talking with us about it. -Hideo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOSStile Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 I must agree with Nate about not killing these fish, it wasn't their fault they were caught and dyed. This dyed fish thing has reared its head before with probably every LFS we know and we won't mention the other names. Boycott a store that sells fish in a way you find dishonest, misleading or down right despicable, but to say the fish should be culled, I mean if you have already stopped buying from this LFS, that should be your message, not the killing of otherwise healthy fish, there is enough ignorant new fish keepers doing that already. If someone truly wants to help the painted fish, maybe we should rescue them, instead of letting them be sold to some idiot who wants to buy it for his girlfriend so he can get laid and the fish dies in a little unheated fishbowl or something. My 2 cents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lax_champ Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 i agree wit hosstile who ever said it would be better to kill them thats just wrong. But again if they had sent the fish back then the place in asia where they come from mught get the hint that they should stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Prawn Posted February 14, 2006 Report Share Posted February 14, 2006 I personally wouldn't cull them. I actually don't know what I think should be done. Sending them back to asia will just have them sent somewhere else again. If only I was a superhero, I could be like Aquaman, and go defend these fish. -Hideo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogled Posted February 14, 2006 Report Share Posted February 14, 2006 Yeah, but what would the Sub-Mariner think of that? He doesn't take kindly to being dethroned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAlberta Posted February 14, 2006 Report Share Posted February 14, 2006 Midget, I do know the fish (at Petcetera) had been there long enough to open the box and leave the contents lying all over the place. I was also there long enough to realize the place was seriously short staffed and the staff (working at that time) knew very little (if anything) about fish. True most bettas can survive in tiny bags with a few tablespoons of water. The key word is "survive". The point I was trying to make is it was very obvious most of the fish were in desparate need of attention. There is no reason (financial or ethical) to leave a fish swimming in its own excrement (in Betta cups) for several days. Chums used to change the "Betta cups" water daily. It was very obvious Petcetera had not changed the water for over 6 days. Looking at this situation from an ecomonic viewpoint it makes financial sense to have your fish in clean water looking their best. You will have less die off and more people purchasing your products and livestock. To some people these are "just fish". To others these are living creatures. Dieing fish is unnessecary and unethical. I am sure many of us can come up with numerous other things which are possibly worse but does that justify putting I heart you on Parrot fish??? There are many animal welfare "issues" out there which many people choose to turn a blind eye to. For instance a while back a few partying Australian soldiers threw kittens into a bonfire and dragged mamma cat behind a motorbike. The fellow who used to live next door (to us) had a puppy named Lucky. Lucky was regularly abused. One night he came over for a visit with his owner dragging him back down the stairs kicking him to his front door. He then kicked him down the stairs. Midget, I can assure you I do not only focus in on painted fish. Perhaps this is a discussion we could have in private. Please feel free to email or pm me if you would like to carry this on further Dave :beer: We were at Petcetera a few weeks back to find the horror of Bettas in tiny sealed bags (with a couple of tablespoons of water) laying around without anyone putting them in water. The others in the cups had extremely bad water quality. We left disgusted! Unfortunatley emotion got away and I should have documented the situation and reported it to animal control. The next time I see this I will be sure to report it. The small bags are what Bettas are shipped in, they do well in that situation. Much better than most fish do in large roomy bags. Had they been sitting there for 5 minutes or hours? You don't know do you? I usually find Petcetera quite disapointing quality wise but the example is not a good reason to get upset. We picked up about a dozen "painted" tetras. For those who don't know these fish were acid dipped then put in a "die" to give them extra colour. We got them from Chums as they were going out of buisiness and I am sure they would not be replaced. They have been through allot and will be living out the rest of their lives with us (or with someone who promises to give them a good home). I will probably make a trip to Big Als tomorrow. To take pictures, document the situation and report it to animal control. I am almost disapointed that Nate posted his reply above, it would have been nice for a LFS to stand up and tell the truth for once. PEOPLE WANT THESE FISH. MOST PEOPLE DON'T CARE HOW THEY GOT THEIR COLOUR! Are dyed fish a bad thing? I think so. Are they even close to the worst thing that happens on a regular basis in the name of this hobby? No, they are not. As an example, of 50 W.C. fish from a river in South America how many make it into ahome where they can live out a natural lifespan? 5%? Maybe 10%? Dyed fish are not a big deal in comparison. I find it absolutely inexcusable someone would put any animal through excessive pain to make a buck!!! You don't think being yanked from a nice lake, jammed in a glass box 1/3 of the size it should be and fed crappy grain based sawdust (aka average flake food) is just as inexcusable? You may take good care of your fish but I'll bet 80% of the fish sold in the market are not afforded proper care. Either you decide you can live with that or you're a hypocrite. The whole hobby is an ethical disaster, focusing on dyed animals exclusively is bogus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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