Brine Shrimp Eggs

[RD.]

Ich .......... While I will respect your decision on this matter, and your opinion, even if that opinion has no facts to substantiate it, there's no need to be bringing God into this, and/or making disparaging remarks such as the one you just directed at me.

The anecdotal evidence is there.

Says who? With all of the outcry over this preservative many years ago, you would think that by now at least one of these groups could have, and would have, found some sort of evidence that actually substantiated that this preservative was indeed causing health issues in pets. Yet to date, nothing!

As previously stated, even aspirin can become toxic if ingested in massive quantities.

My dog cannot properly assimilate protein derived from beef, or meat by-products.

This isn't a common problem in dogs, but it happens. Does this mean that we should now consider banning beef in all pet foods? Of course not! Just as in humans, all dogs/cats etc, can become sensitive to certain ingredients contained in a food, natural ingredients, or not.

I'm not one to throw out the baby with the bath water, just because someone posts a letter from a DVM on the WWW. For all I know that same DVM makes & markets "health foods" for pets, who knows what if any agenda is behind something like that?

NLS has a maximum of 20 ppm (.002%) in the total formula, if you feel this is cause for concern, no problem, feel free to stick to using Tetra. At the same time you might want to ask the folks at Tetra why they use dyes & lakes in their formula, and you might also want to look into some of the studies in those areas, such as on Red No. 3 (Erythrosine)

Let me help you get started:

http://www.ific.org/publications/brochures...dcolorbroch.cfm

Q. What is the status of FD&C Red No. 3?

A. In 1990, FDA discontinued the provisional listing of all lake forms of FD&C Red No. 3 and its dye form used in external drugs and cosmetics. The uses were terminated because one study of the color additive in male rats showed an association with thyroid tumors. In announcing the decision, FDA stressed that any human risk posed by FD&C Red No. 3 was extremely small and was based less on safety concerns than the legal mandate of the Delaney Clause. FD&C Red No. 3 remains permanently listed for use in food and ingested drugs, although FDA has announced its intent to propose rescinding those listings.

Sounds to me like even the FDA is going to pull the plug on Red No.3.

Lots more on this in the links below:

http://www.inchem.org/documents/jecfa/jecmono/v024je04.htm

http://www.inchem.org/documents/jecfa/jecmono/v44jec17.htm

http://diet-studies.com/dye.html#top

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...6&dopt=Abstract

http://www.lactose.co.uk/milkallergy/foodadditives100.html (note that at least one country has already banned the use of this dye)

Now imagine what kind of levels of some of those substances it takes to cause health issues in something as small as a fish, fed this food over the course of several years? And why exactly does a food that is pretty much brown in color, use lakes & dyes in their formula?

Just something to think about, while you're fretting over the use of .002% of a formula, that's used to prevent bacteria & mold in fish food.

Edited August 13, 2006 by RD.

[williewonka]

Does anyone know where in Edmonton I can get large batches of brine shrimp eggs? It's getting expensive buying the little 6 oz bottles...my angelfish babies are going through them like crazy.

Some of this makes for an interesting read... but what if anything does this have to do with the original post???

And do you think its really fair to the original poster to be hijacking the post like this? Maybe a better option would be starting a new post and continuing there.

[RD.]

The OP has asked about feeding NLS to their fry on more than one occasion, so I would assume that any info that has been supplied that involves this food, or any other food that they might consider (they also asked Ich what he uses), would be a plus for them.

I haven't seen cheese complaining thus far, have you?

[webmoose]

Cheese - I've ordered from brineshrimp direct in the past and had great results from their product. But the shipping was very high. I think you would do best as a group order. I still have a ton of decapulated and regular bbs from my original order and that is after giving Toirtus a giant bag of decapsulated. The only thing I don't like about decapsulated is that I always have this feeling that I am going to feed too much with it. It seems like something that could easily foul the water. All my fish I've fed with these like both.

That Holdings guy that has killi fish. I got micro worms from him in the past and I was pleased with his promptness and good packing as well and i like that he uses 'buy now' on alot of his fish.

I've also order killies from aquabid from a guy named Narta on their with good success.

Here is a link to his auctions:

Aquabid - Narta

Edited August 13, 2006 by webmoose

[Ichthyosporidium]

Thanks Webmoose, That is good to know. I always am looking to expand my contacts list. You know, I am surprised that no one readily carries large quantities of BS eggs anymore. I used to keep 454g cans at the LFS I worked at and never had an issue with moving it.

[Cheese]

Some of this makes for an interesting read... but what if anything does this have to do with the original post???

Thank you!! I was starting to look elsewhere for my brine shrimp question...

I did order the ones from the source in England...so we'll see how long it takes to get here. Should be good for my next batch of fry.

I haven't seen cheese complaining thus far, have you?

That's because Cheese has been sitting in shock...hoping that everyone will start playing nice again! I"ve tried to change the subject away from the bickering a few times.

I do enjoy hearing what each experienced person feels best for their fish. Where I come from there was only an occasional store that sold fish, and they really didn't know much tell us much about the ones we had, and there wasn't many resources available at the time. It is great to be able to learn from other people who've had better resources over the years so others can learn from their experiences, good and bad.

I'm not fond of accelerated growth formulas...as much as I like to see them grow quick, I'd rather they grow at what is natural for them.

[RD.]

Cheese ....... Please don't consider the debate that Ich I were having as bickering, it was nothing more than an exchange of ideas & opinions between two individuals who happen to be very passionate about this hobby. Tony & I have already discussed this via PM. :beer:

Hopefully some of what we discussed helps you further in your quest for information regarding the diet of your fry.

Edited August 13, 2006 by RD.

[Melody]

Great link there Melody. I have to come out to Vancouver and hopefully meet some of these breeders, and learn some "new" tricks of the trade.

We'd love to have you . I think you hit it with the "new" in quotations. If its new to us, its new. If we research it and want to try it rather than let someone else tell us what's best, all the better. If we conclude something different, no big. Its just that - different. If the fish are happy and healthy then it really doesn't matter what someone else swears by. 'Facts' change all the time after all, and its easy to pick and choose my facts to support my particular belief - that's human nature. Many of the 'traditional' beliefs and successes go into what's "new" anyway. I don't think that anything should be outright dismissed just because it isn't what we personally see as fact. There are some very knowledgable people here, and I'd enjoy hearing from all of them. I hope that more chime in , if its ok with Ms. Cheese, and that we all can keep an open mind or at least be polite enough to allow them to state their opinions in peace. That's a reminder to myself too, incidentally....lol.

Thanks for your patience Cheese - I've learned a lot from this inadvertent thread you started...lol...and I've enjoyed it for the most part.

[Cheese]

[Thanks for your patience Cheese - I've learned a lot from this inadvertent thread you started...lol...and I've enjoyed it for the most part.

It's been entertaining, that's for sure!

[RD.]

I don't believe that anyone has been outright dismissed in this thread, have they?

In some cases facts are indeed facts, unless someone here still believes that the world is flat?

I have no problem with anyone experimenting with their fish, they can feed beefheart if they feel that's going to achieve great results, but I will always do my best to explain to those people why I don't agree with that position, just in case someone new to this hobby reads that kind of info & feels that beefheart is actually a good staple food for fish.

Hopefully that clears up my position in this thread.

[Melody]

I'm not fond of accelerated growth formulas...as much as I like to see them grow quick, I'd rather they grow at what is natural for them.

Anyways, this statement brought something to mind. It would be interesting to find out the natural average growth rate for the species we're raising. I don't think I've ever really factored that in to my cauldron experiements...lol...I've just compared everything to what I've previously experienced. I suppose I remember it on one level or another, but I think it should have more importance placed on it. Good point.

[williewonka]

For the record, I've been following this post since its origin, as I too was interested in a source for brine shrimp and micro worms. I found the links very informative and even enjoyed reading the different viewpoints on food types . I've been using NLS almost exclusively for the last couple of months with my fish, both full size pellets and growth formula, and am quite satisfied with the results. ( Fish seem to like it and cleanup is way better than with fresh fish or live fish ).

I just felt that the subject was getting way too far offtrack and turning into more of a personal exchange rather than a exchange of information and not really fair to Cheese or to her? question. I was only going by how I would feel personally if it had happened in one of my threads and I apologize to Cheese or anyone else if I shouldn't have stuck my nose in.

PS. I'm all for the discussion continuing in a diff thread and i'll follow it there too. I just didn't feel this was the place for this heated a subject.

Thanks Fred

[RD.]

If you're referring to commercial pet fish food products, I don't believe that anything exists on the market that could be considered an accelerated growth formula.

Commercial 'food fish' formulas designed for trout, salmon, tilapia, etc, different story.

[Nandopsis]

Buy a Pistol & Mortar and a bucket of NLS Grow. It'll last you forever!

I would have to agree with the first reply in this thread.

Good advice and even better food.

Your fish will love it or i'll buy the remainder off of you.

[RD.]

As I recall Cheese has asked & commented about a lot more than just BS eggs in this thread.

Lots of threads on online forums end up taking twists & turns along the way, I personally don't see what the big issue is. Cheese got the info that she requested, and a heck of a lot more.