Killi section???

[jvision]

I just scored a pair of Australis at last night's meeting. My first killi's ever! Mike said to put 'em in a 2 gal w. some java moss. Right now my fishroom is in complete disarray, so I dumped 'em into my 33 planted for now. This may become my new obsession!

[Oxquo]

A quick tip for You, I would personally spawn them fast, either spawning mop or java moss, hornwort whatever. In a community tank they tend to find the openings, stuff all holes with cotton batting. I have spawned them easily in a 1 gallon vase or better yet, put two jars side by side so they can see each other, Remember the smaller the jar the better he can catch her, in a large tank You may find 2 eggs a day, in this same manner, housing them permanently in small containers is bad, the female can get over spawned and with no where to run often dies. no plants necessary at this point, feed lots of live foods for 5 days to a week, grindals, brineshrimp, daphnia, even whiteworms. Get her nice and fat!!! Do a 50% water change in the gallon jar of the female and the male. Add the plant or as I prefer mop, and after about 30 minutes add the male. Within the day You should have a pile of eggs, depending on the age and condition of the fish, 30 is about average.

If You never made mops before, here is how I do it. Take wool or Nylon based wool, I'd stay away from cotton as it holds bacteria and the dye may leech. Use a color that is light green if You can, in dark mops they find the eggs too easily, in a white mop it will be hell finding them yourself. Find a book about 8" tall and fairly skinny. Start by dragging about 5" off of the end of the book and then wrap the yarn around the book, I like 30 wraps minimum, for more eggs do 50 but it's more of an egg hunt for them and you. After the 50 wraps or whatever you decide on Take the long strand and tie a double knot on one side of the top which will be about 2" from the top of the book. Do the wraps loosely and you should be able to slip scissors inbetween the books pages to cut the bottom. Now that the bottom is cut, You can decide if You want a top mop or bottom. For bottoms I like to tie a small round rock in the top, for floating, styrofoam or a cork works best. place cork into the loops and center it. then use the double knot line to wrap the cork in like making paper ghosts in school. Rinse the mop in hot, hot water, soak over night, rinse again in warm in the morning and add to tank or bowl.

In My opinion, there are a few ways to hatch the fry. Place eggs on peat, cover and open often, check for fungus eggs and remove daily or every second day, hatch is about three weeks this way, add tank water to peat and fry should pop, what doesn't, can be tried again in a few days. Better yet, drop mop in small container flat is best. add 4 drops meth blue or 6 drops acriflaven. Remove fungus eggs, Usually two weeks to hatch. Over plant a small tank and let the folks go nuts, few fry will make it. The best way for highest hatch out, find a film container, clear or white, not black. Place small amount of tap water and up to 15 eggs. 4 drops acriflaven, or 2 drops meth. Change a bit of water every 5 days more often is not necessary. Open the container daily. Shake well before opening. then close. Around the 12 day mark, carry them in your pocket, open often and shake. On day 14, check before You shake, some fry may already be out. If not open container, take a deep breath and blow CO2 into the bottle. Alternately, use CO2 from planted tank. Close and shake like a mad man, don't be afraid to shake hard. Open container, and with eye dropper remove hatched fry into small tank, jar or dish as they hatch, close jar and repeat. I get about 95% hatch with this method. Depending on room temp fry can take 3-5 days to accept food, placing java moss in the fry container can offer the fry natural foods until they can accept microworms, Sera fry powder also works great but live food allows less rot. Some people add micros to hatch the fry, but if the fry arent ready this method can backfire and kill the fry in the later stages. They grow fast and furious on rotifers, fine powdered food etc... and I can usually sex them before 3 months fairly accurately.

Since I am one of the few on here who love to chat killies, if You have any questions let Me know. Maybe We can swap some fry one day. Best of luck with these gems of the aquarium............

Edited October 5, 2006 by Oxquo

[Ichthyosporidium]

In the spring, I will have some Rivulus xiphidius young available. These guy's can be touchy to breed and a high number of males develop when bred in captivity.

Here is site I frequent. Killifish in the U.K.

I should also specify that they are the PK15 strain

Edited October 5, 2006 by Ichthyosporidium

[Oxquo]

I may even drive down there for those. One of My ultimate favorites. I have often found that adding a heater at 76F is often the key with them to the sex ratio and 7.0 pH Not sure which make the biggest difference but it does make a difference. Colder temps and temp fluctuations always give Me a male dominancy even to the point of no females. Just a thought. To Me the rivulus are very valuable. Tell me when they are ready, I'd offer You $40.00 for a trio of MFF. I'd prefer sexed though as I do know that often due to the room temp and tap water breeding, girls are non-existent. Good part is that males sell easy even without females.

You can use cocnut fibre for media instead of peat to keep pH neutral. I have found that storing the eggs on the fibre is important too. keep peat a little more moist than with notho's and hatch should be between 20 and 24 days at a steady room temp of atleast 74F.

[webmoose]

Excellent Article Oxquo.....

One thing that I do that I don't think you mentioned with my killi fry is place a single snail in the hatched tank with them to clean up any excess food. I have single snails that don't breed as they are the only ones in the tank. (tricky to get a none pregnant snail) but I have 1 in each of my tanks. Easier to extract snail poo than it is to extract any excess fry food.

Rivulus xiphidius!!! very exciting...

Almost all my killi purchase's have been eggs. I would be interested in fry / sexed killi's as well. I was pretty happy to pick up male female notho at last springs CAS auction....

Moooose

Edited October 5, 2006 by webmoose

[Oxquo]

I personally try to keep My rearing tanks snail free. I prefer frequent water changes and vaccuuming but snails do work great. Don't know if I would trust them before the fry lose their egg sack though as they have a hard time swimming and snails could ruin their delicate slime coating or faint new scales. I use to put baby ramshorns in though, years ago.

whether snails go in or not water changes everyday or two days is almost a must and small tanks to begin with which can be easily cleaned via turkey baster. Feeding live foods also helps keep tanks cleaner.

I would like to add that alot of rivulus and aphy's are spawned in low water values and the results are stunningly identical, Males, males and more males. Alot of Notho's are the same, but many of them come from waters with high values. I can't stress enough to try new things for new results, don't go to far extremes but do make changes. I believe that alot of males survive when temps fluctuate too much and the smaller females perish even as young as egg. As You pull eggs, squeeze them gently, if they squish they are not fertile, if they are hard they are good. As important as counting Your eggs, remember to count Your unfertile eggs, there may be things You can change. If you line your eggs up on peat and separate the smaller ones and the bigger ones I have found that although a tiny size difference, small eggs become majorily female and larger eggs male, not although not a solid theory as some nice males have come from small eggs. Oh and I'm not being picky or an english major but it is Notho as in Nothobranchius theer is no R as in Northo. Sorry but I am odd that way and for people who have fishes and fries, it is fish and fry. No offense intended at all....

[webmoose]

yeah that is a bad habit of mine... NOTHO just have to type it 200 times 500 times to train my brain...

my snails are ramhorns.. and all great points about water changes and water quality.. I also don't recommend snails as a substitute to them. I just found it quick and easy to draw out snail poo..

Once again great points

[jvision]

A quick tip for You, I would personally spawn them fast, either spawning mop or java moss, hornwort whatever. In a community tank they tend to find the openings, stuff all holes with cotton batting. I have spawned them easily in a 1 gallon vase or better yet, put two jars side by side so they can see each other, Remember the smaller the jar the better he can catch her, in a large tank You may find 2 eggs a day, in this same manner, housing them permanently in small containers is bad, the female can get over spawned and with no where to run often dies. no plants necessary at this point, feed lots of live foods for 5 days to a week, grindals, brineshrimp, daphnia, even whiteworms. Get her nice and fat!!! Do a 50% water change in the gallon jar of the female and the male. Add the plant or as I prefer mop, and after about 30 minutes add the male. Within the day You should have a pile of eggs, depending on the age and condition of the fish, 30 is about average.

If You never made mops before, here is how I do it. Take wool or Nylon based wool, I'd stay away from cotton as it holds bacteria and the dye may leech. Use a color that is light green if You can, in dark mops they find the eggs too easily, in a white mop it will be hell finding them yourself. Find a book about 8" tall and fairly skinny. Start by dragging about 5" off of the end of the book and then wrap the yarn around the book, I like 30 wraps minimum, for more eggs do 50 but it's more of an egg hunt for them and you. After the 50 wraps or whatever you decide on Take the long strand and tie a double knot on one side of the top which will be about 2" from the top of the book. Do the wraps loosely and you should be able to slip scissors inbetween the books pages to cut the bottom. Now that the bottom is cut, You can decide if You want a top mop or bottom. For bottoms I like to tie a small round rock in the top, for floating, styrofoam or a cork works best. place cork into the loops and center it. then use the double knot line to wrap the cork in like making paper ghosts in school. Rinse the mop in hot, hot water, soak over night, rinse again in warm in the morning and add to tank or bowl.

In My opinion, there are a few ways to hatch the fry. Place eggs on peat, cover and open often, check for fungus eggs and remove daily or every second day, hatch is about three weeks this way, add tank water to peat and fry should pop, what doesn't, can be tried again in a few days. Better yet, drop mop in small container flat is best. add 4 drops meth blue or 6 drops acriflaven. Remove fungus eggs, Usually two weeks to hatch. Over plant a small tank and let the folks go nuts, few fry will make it. The best way for highest hatch out, find a film container, clear or white, not black. Place small amount of tap water and up to 15 eggs. 4 drops acriflaven, or 2 drops meth. Change a bit of water every 5 days more often is not necessary. Open the container daily. Shake well before opening. then close. Around the 12 day mark, carry them in your pocket, open often and shake. On day 14, check before You shake, some fry may already be out. If not open container, take a deep breath and blow CO2 into the bottle. Alternately, use CO2 from planted tank. Close and shake like a mad man, don't be afraid to shake hard. Open container, and with eye dropper remove hatched fry into small tank, jar or dish as they hatch, close jar and repeat. I get about 95% hatch with this method. Depending on room temp fry can take 3-5 days to accept food, placing java moss in the fry container can offer the fry natural foods until they can accept microworms, Sera fry powder also works great but live food allows less rot. Some people add micros to hatch the fry, but if the fry arent ready this method can backfire and kill the fry in the later stages. They grow fast and furious on rotifers, fine powdered food etc... and I can usually sex them before 3 months fairly accurately.

Since I am one of the few on here who love to chat killies, if You have any questions let Me know. Maybe We can swap some fry one day. Best of luck with these gems of the aquarium............

Thanks for the advice! I'll be putting it all to work this weekend. Lots of running around today, and meeting tonight, so it'll have to wait.

It all sounds so fun! :thumbs:

OK, I'm ready for a killi forum!

[Oxquo]

It's funny what a diverse group killi keepers are compulsive, selective and persistent. I remember bringing home 2 sets of killies Apyosemion gardneri and aphyosemion striatum as My first gems. So I give them space, spawn them and in general add to the collection. Two years later I sold My first auction lots. To My suprise I didn't have Aphy Gardneri but I did have Aphy striatum, "what?". I had Fundulopanchax gardneri and aphy striatum. What the hell was going on? I went home and looked in My books, and they were wrong, they were new releases when I bought the books, how could they be wrong? Some A-hole decided He was bored so he would reclassify stuff for no reason, These certainly looked nothing like a panchax, truthfully although not as stalky they resembled Fundulosoma more than any panchax, Aplocheilus now on the other hand resembled panchax. Oh yeah, back to the point, wasn't meanin to pick on anyone but just misspelling a killi name could cause My stock to no longer be cool.

Over all it's not as bad as betta keepers, sorry guys but, If You have 200 jars of betta splendens, You have one species, In four colors, that is somewhat like naming each worm in a culture. I suppose you could collect B imbellis or B. Coccina but few ever do, They give them a new fancy common name and sell Splendens as something new each week like they were a new species. Not pickin on betta people but I just wish killies could change common names that easy. Look at guppies I could have 100 strains of guppies, all poecilia reticulata , but I still only have one species. How quaint. Selling them becomes easy, just use the common name. Red tiger, Tuxedo, and By tail shape, fantail, double sword etc....

Lets face it, Aphyosemion is cool, has a ring to it, flows and is very cool. For three years I quit buying fundulopanchax, I even got rid of My killies who's names were rudely changed, and dammit, I loved My Aphyosemion Scheeli, but sold them Fundulopanchax Scheeli like they were a plague.

Is there a point to this long drawn out story??? Yes and here is the moral.... Whenever someone counts the amount of times the Forum has used the word killi to reference a platform against having a killi board on the forum, it is within the confines of a crazed and slightly overdramatic and of course compulsive killi nut to reply with a message or two that have absolutely no point to them except to mention KILLI. HAHAHA how many posts have killi in them now Tanker??? For the time I would like those on behalf of the killi board to change Tanker's name to Killi Tanker as this should bring up the use of the word killi and the mention of the species enough that even he will see fit the need for a killi board.

[RD.]

For the time I would like those on behalf of the killi board to change Tanker's name to Killi Tanker as this should bring up the use of the word killi and the mention of the species enough that even he will see fit the need for a killi board.

-roll-

[Oxquo]

Well now that they are here I am gonna spawn them and raise half of each fry on NLS and the other half on live. I will use the Picture tank and the tripod so all pictures are true to form. I will have to start them on paramecia and rotifers but after I will crush up NLS growth. This should make an even cooler species report, with non-biased results since I am very much a live food lover but have seen the results of NLS second hand. To see it happen first hand would be like spotting a yeti, if I see it, You'll hear about it.

Jvision, it is fun, Egg waiting is tough with fish like notho's and hell, I can't remember where I put My keys nevermind to hatch eggs in 6 months but somehow we manage. Who wouldn't love all those colors and that feisty little attitude, and the fact that there is sooo many of them but so little availability. To Me killies are like collecting stamps or hockey cards, You never know what You will get or when You will get them, but if You find them, there is always room for another little tank. Your wife won't even notice like she would a 50 or a hundred gallon. Just slip it on a table and say" what? that old thing, nah, had it for ages..." The......KILLI.... I mean.

[RD.]

Sounds good, I'll be interested in reading your report, and seeing the pics.

[Oxquo]

I'll post them with the write up for sure. Does NLS make or intend to make fry food? Sera made an incredible fry food, I would like to see the difference from birth but chrushing and screening food is a pain and too big of chunks means waste. I will also put My red devil and dovii on it because I have heard of great results. Let us not forget though that growth is also largely due to frequent partial water changes. They make betta food, guppy food and even flowerhorn food, I'd love to see someone make a food for killies that would let us put away the cultures permanently.

[RD.]

The Growth formula is their fry food. Obviously it needs to be crushed for the smaller species, but I don't believe that Pablo has any intentions of making a smaller particle size. Place it in a thick poly bag, lay it on a hard flat surface, and lightly pound it with a hammer. While I have zero experience with killies, many fry will pick at & eat the larger portions as they soften in the water.

BTW - you might be interested in reading this as well;

http://www.newlife.ipbhost.com/forums/inde...p?showtopic=182

If you're looking for a commercial dry food to feed killies, I don't think that you need to look any further.

[Tanker]

'Killi Tanker' - lol

As for the crushing of NLS Growth quite a few of us have been using a battery powered spice grinder (WalMart, $18-20) that works wonderfully. Fill the hopper, dial the grind size down, and press the button.

You can actually tape the button down, and set it up over a container to catch the grindings... this way you don't have to stand there for the two or three minutes it will take to dust off it's hopper full. Run it through twice and you'll find a delightfully small and fairly consistent particle size.