RD. Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 The NLS has a hard time breaking the surface tension of the water and tends to spread all over before it starts sinking, often resulting on more food on the substrate than I would like. Toss the 1mm pellets in with a bit of force, and 90% or more of them should sink straight away. The next size up from the 1mm pellet size, is the 3mm Large Fish formula, and I'm surprised that a 5" Escondido would have any issues eating a 3mm pellet. BTW - The Grande Prarie Petland also carries NLS. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vallisneria Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 The NLS has a hard time breaking the surface tension of the water and tends to spread all over before it starts sinking, often resulting on more food on the substrate than I would like. Even if I roll it between my fingers underwater first, the NLS still doesn't sink as well as the Hikari and tends to spread all over. Really, I find that the NLS sinks too well sometimes and some top dwelling fish have a hard to times it. My angels for example only eat off the surface and the NLS pellets sink too fast for them. All my other fish love it, even if it does sink. I usually have a hard time getting any pellets to actually make it to the gravel for the bottom dwellers to eat. I'm hoping NLS comes out with a floating pellet, or atleast one that floats longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Chicklets Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 Does NLS make a flake? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucklehead Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 NLS, fozen peas and freeze dried krill for my smaller new worlds, shrimp and dainichi for my rays and snooks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOSStile Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 (edited) Nothing but the best for my boys, just smack the stuff with a hammer until it is the right size. Failing that, then NLS is OK Edited February 5, 2007 by HOSStile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albertan Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Toss the 1mm pellets in with a bit of force, and 90% or more of them should sink straight away. The next size up from the 1mm pellet size, is the 3mm Large Fish formula, and I'm surprised that a 5" Escondido would have any issues eating a 3mm pellet. BTW - The Grande Prarie Petland also carries NLS. HTH I don't just toss them in with force. I roll them in my fingers underwater. I have quite a lot of current in my 150 due to the filtration and the NLS gets carries everywhere, on top or in the water. Anyways, it's a great food and I like to alternate the NLS and Hikari as they each have different protein sources (krill & herring vs. salmon milt meal). I'll have to look into the pellets in Grande Prairie, I haven't seen them before. I bought mine in Red Deer a couple of weeks ago and the only two sizes were the 1mm and some that looked like 5-7mm as I recall. My 5" Escondido is a pain anyways. She pouts until I cave and break out the frozen krill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
African_Fever Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Salmon milt meal is about the oddest form of protein I've ever heard of. A ton of things I could say about it, but first question is what exactly would be beneficial in it? (besides possibly stimulating the fish to spawn due to attached pheromones etc. to the milt meal) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albertan Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Salmon milt meal is about the oddest form of protein I've ever heard of. A ton of things I could say about it, but first question is what exactly would be beneficial in it? (besides possibly stimulating the fish to spawn due to attached pheromones etc. to the milt meal) Without regurgitating the gory details of my university biochemistry courses or competitive bodybuilding days, I'll just say variety is the spice of life when it comes to amino acids and leave it at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 I suspect that you will find very few bodybuilders that drink salmon sperm protein shakes. Salmon milt (sperm) is a rather low cost by-product of the Salmon industry, used by the Japanese to make cosmetics, health supplements, as well as preservatives. The DHA found in salmon milt meal that Hikari promotes is the same DHA found in any quality fish meal. Salmon sperm may taste good to your fish, and it no doubt raises the crude protein level in the food, but that doesn't mean that all of that crude protein is actually utilized by your fish. Hikari is also the only company that I'm aware of that uses this ingredient (as the main ingredient) in a fish food, which seems odd when one considers the number of salmon farms in North America. I have yet to find a single shred of documentation regarding the amino acid profile and/& overall digestibilty of salmon sperm meal with regards to tropical fish, and I suspect that I never will. With the exception of Hikari fish foods, I also know of no other fish food manufacturer that adds MSG to their food. On the other hand, both South Antarctic Krill & Herring meal are well known in the aquaculture industry as two of the best sources of marine proteins that can be used in fish feeds, with amino acid profiles of the highest biological value. Both of these ingredients are also two of the most expensive marine based proteins in the aquaculture industry. Like most things in life, you get what you pay for ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albertan Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Don't kid yourself about what hardcore bodybuilders will and will not put into their bodies...you don't really think the pictures on the magazine covers at your local 7-Eleven came from chicken breasts and lots of sleep I hope. :bang1: Anyways, I haven't seen the amino acid profiles of either product. I don't suspect anyone outside of the companies have. And since I am not that intimately familiar with the physiology of the fish I keep, I don't suppose I need to know. But I would be interested in any links providing support for the claims you make regarding either product. I don't have a particular interest either way in these products. Apparently both are available side by side on the shelf at my local Petland. However knowledge is a powerful tool and I'd love to see some scientific literature backing up the anecdotal support for NLS on the various fish forums on the internet. I just tried to access NLS's web site and its down. The original poster asked for everyones favorite cichlid food. Mine at the moment isn't NLS. I'll go crawl back in my corner now. :cry: BTW, Cichlid Complete costs twice as much as NLS, so if you get what you pay for... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 (edited) Just for the record, I wasn't the one who questioned the use of salmon milt meal, nor did I mention the amino acid profiles of any specific formulas or brands. Having said that, I am probably more qualified than most to speak on both subjects. If you have read the PM that I sent to you earlier today, I also suggested what I felt was a higher quality Hikari formula to you than the current one you are using. While I do have an obvious bias on this subject, my main goal is to see that AA members fish get what they rightly deserve. At one time I too used to feed Hikari products to my fish, so I am very familiar with their various formulas. Obviously the ultimate decision will be yours, as it will be the original poster who was seeking info from the members here. Any hobbyist that's truly interested in what they feed their fish can research the amino acid profiles, as well as the crude protein, and even the digestible protein of most ingredients used in commercial fish feed. Obviously the main players with regards to amino acids will be the fish/marine based ingredients. Seeing as you asked, here's a good read on South Antarctic Krill Meal (Euphausia superba) http://www.aquafeed.com/article.php?id=439§ionid=5 You can find the NRC's (National Research Council's) amino acid stats for the 4 most popular forms of fish meal, including herring meal, in the link below. Also note the CP (crude protein) of each meal listed. http://www.fao.org/ag/AGA/AGAP/frg/AFRIS/Data/332.HTM An excellent read on the overall advantages of incorporating a high quality fish meal into fish feed can be read here; http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA122 The article linked to above was just published in 2006, with both authors being more than qualified to discuss this subject in detail. You can read their credentials near the bottom of the page under Footnotes #2. While the overall quality of all fish meals are ultimately based on the quality of the raw product, as well as the processing methods, when it comes to overall protein content & their amino acid profiles, Herring meal & South Antarctic Krill meal are a difficult combo to beat. Due to their cost, there are very few tropical fish food companies that utilize both ingredients as the two main ingredients in their feed. While the main NLS site does appear to be down, if you're interested you can access their Nutrition Q&A forum here: http://www.newlife.ipbhost.com/forums/index.php? I don't believe that Hikari has an online forum open to the public, where the CEO will answer questions about his companies various products. :P Edited February 7, 2007 by RD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albertan Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Thanks Neil. I do appreciate the replies and hope you and everyone else here doesn't take our discussion as confrontational. Amongst other degrees, I have a B.Sc. (Hon) with my thesis on folate biochemistry so I have some knowledge of this area as well. I'm at work right now but will certainly have a look at those references this evening. In the end, I think the important thing is that we have a concensus that NLS products are second to none in the hobby. Cheers. :beer: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinless Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 my guys get nls - hikari - frozen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toirtis Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Nothing but the best for my boys, just smack the stuff with a hammer until it is the right size. Failing that, then NLS is OK Move on up to a better product: ...mmmm...."animal protein" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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