Flowerhorns and Botox

[RD.]

No problem. BTW - this is probably going to be a total buzz kill for your man crush on Heiko Bleher, but apparently this is all his fault.

http://www.perthcichlid.com.au/forum/index.php?showtopic=27801&st=20

The Flowerhorn cichlid is not a hybrid, it is a mutant, like the parrot cichlid, it is also a mutant, and so on. If anyone tells you that those are hybrids, then that is simply wrong. Because I supplied the original species to the Taiwanese breeder how did both mutant forms and saw in details on trips over their what he did with it. (And unfortunately became world-famous and he made a lot of money with those terrible monsters...).

It doesn't appear that Heiko has kept up with the flowerhorn craze (genetics wise), but personally I think that it's rather funny that Heiko would even associate his fish purist name with a filthy hybrid mutant such as a FH.

[CursiveDuck]

I wonder if after years of breeding will the kok ever reach a point that's detrimental to the fish's overall well being from being too big, like we've done with our turkeys. From some of the veterinary studies I've done through the U of A and many of the turkey and chicken farms I've visited, they're isn't a turkey made for market (Unless it's wild) that can naturally breed anymore because it's breasts are too big! All the females have to be artificially inseminated, not to mention all of the horror stories of incorrectly choosing traits, breasts to big for the legs to handle resulting in the legs snapping, etc. I guess the question I'm asking is when is it too big?

[RD.]

IMO, in some cases it's already too big. I don't personally find a massive alien head looking kok, appealing, anymore than I would on a CA cichlid.

[DanGofCalgary]

No problem. BTW - this is probably going to be a total buzz kill for your man crush on Heiko Bleher, but apparently this is all his fault.

http://www.perthcich...pic=27801&st=20

The Flowerhorn cichlid is not a hybrid, it is a mutant, like the parrot cichlid, it is also a mutant, and so on. If anyone tells you that those are hybrids, then that is simply wrong. Because I supplied the original species to the Taiwanese breeder how did both mutant forms and saw in details on trips over their what he did with it. (And unfortunately became world-famous and he made a lot of money with those terrible monsters...).

It doesn't appear that Heiko has kept up with the flowerhorn craze (genetics wise), but personally I think that it's rather funny that Heiko would even associate his fish purist name with a filthy hybrid mutant such as a FH.

Thanks for that interesting link. We each choose our own stand, our own 'line in the sand' if you will. I don't impose mine on others beyond stating what I believe in, and what I support financially, and vocally.

If you choose to hybridize fish, that is your business and your conscience. Nothing to do with me. I however, will not buy them, support or otherwise engage in the hybridization. Not to say I couldn't accidentally, but once I know, then I will move away from it.

With that said however, I find it interesting that Heiko is saying that the FH and the Parrot cichlid are NOT hybrids. I was very curious about the FH, as I too (as Heiko also stated) believed that Hybrids (the base example being the mule) were born sterile. He is also indicating that some hybrids are not born sterile but become sterile (I have not understanding of this, just relaying what I have read). I had always believed that the Parrot cichlid is sterile however.

In any case, if the FH is NOT a hybrid, but the result just of linebreeding etc (which more closely fits with my belief on hybrids being sterile) I have no opposition to it in any way, and would even become interested (not likely, but possibly) in line breeding it at some point.

I (and again this is just personal choice) have no opposition to Angel, discus, guppy, or other line breeding where species haven't been crossed, hormonally induced to cross, or otherwise messed with to induce interspecies breeding. Same species is open game, and line breeding for certain traits I have no issue with.

If the DNA testing could show the same DNA from a FH as the original species that Heikel has mentioned (and seriously, that should be a pretty simple thing to do. I think you can get a DNA test done at local labs these days??), I'd support FH breeding etc.

(In fairness, my support and 75 cents will get you a cup of coffee. haha! My 'support' doesn't have much weight).

Just one man's opinion, and why I had weighed in on this orginal discussion. My belief was also that the FH was a Hybrid species, not just an exploitation of a mutation (which is pretty much what most line bred fish are, yes? Just a natural breeding program to exploit a desirable genetic feature, whatever that mutation might be.)

Within limits of course. Breeding fish for that 'balloon' look just strikes me as wrong... But to each his own. I just won't buy them or breed them.

Peace.

Dan

[Skychurch]

Thanks for taking all the time Neil to help me understand. I'm pretty sure what you're saying is sound and I am walking away from this post with a much better understanding. Thanks again.

Very Informative Post....

Thanks guys...

[Evolution]

No problem. BTW - this is probably going to be a total buzz kill for your man crush on Heiko Bleher, but apparently this is all his fault.

http://www.perthcich...pic=27801&st=20

The Flowerhorn cichlid is not a hybrid, it is a mutant, like the parrot cichlid, it is also a mutant, and so on. If anyone tells you that those are hybrids, then that is simply wrong. Because I supplied the original species to the Taiwanese breeder how did both mutant forms and saw in details on trips over their what he did with it. (And unfortunately became world-famous and he made a lot of money with those terrible monsters...).

It doesn't appear that Heiko has kept up with the flowerhorn craze (genetics wise), but personally I think that it's rather funny that Heiko would even associate his fish purist name with a filthy hybrid mutant such as a FH.

No, no buzz kill. I've been reading his aquageo mag since #1 and his tfh articles since the 80s. It doesn't surprise me that he supplied the origonals and I have the tfh article in the mag somewhere around here. The thing about him is the life he leads, the exploration. I find it facinating. However, I was a bit disgusted to see him set up a Hagen tank for Hagen when he toured Ontario. First thing I said was... "NOOB!"