The-Influence Posted March 18, 2012 Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 So I want to set up this 80 gallon and for some reason I'm not feeling sure of the weight it will have on the floor . Now I thought I'd do some looking around for ajustable support columns and I can't believe that I can't find em ! Checked Rona , Home depot , Windsor supply . Nothing ! Any thoughts ? Ideas ? Where I wanted the tank it would have ran the length of the joist and well that did not sit well with me . All the places in my living room that would have the tank running across 2-3 joists are just plain ugly ! So I need to fix this problem. If I posted in wrong section , my bad Blake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvision Posted March 18, 2012 Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 Try kijiji for teleposts. But, an 80 gal isn't that big. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Influence Posted March 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 I agree with its not that big but it will be running across one joist . The only thing that brings me comfort is that it's a wall that divides outside from inside , so a foundation wall but the first joist is about a foot from the foundation . I should have become a contractor or engineer ! Oh how life would be easier . Blake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckmullin Posted March 18, 2012 Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 (edited) Do you have access to the joists or is there a permanent ceiling below? IF you have full access to the joists do this and you will not need any sort of telepost. Want to do some good dyi...do this across your entire floor @ three foot spaces. You will give your house an improvement and up resale. If you do this...use pl construction adhesive with 3" screws. You'd be shocked at what this will actually accomplish to redirect downward forces. The last floor I did this on, it was close to 100 cross braces spaced every three feet on every available joist void. Builders should to this as the norm but if you want it done it's an extra $. If you don't have access do this. There are many ways to install a telepost such as this. Teleposts @ totem After that do this to hide it if you like: Edited March 18, 2012 by ckmullin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistolPete Posted March 18, 2012 Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 Can u put it near a load bearing wall? 80 gallons personally i wouldnt sweat it. But like u, i also like my tanks to sit across a few joists Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprucegruve Posted March 18, 2012 Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 (edited) as it stands right now until my construction is done. i have 18 tanks in one room......and 2 in another. in the room with 18 tanks there is 413 gallons or tank running.....no support underneath.... no problems.....i inspect my joists everyday or every second day because i am doing drop ceiling in the basement underneath the room at the moment. honestly i was going to support my floor but 2 of my friends(contractors) as-well as a third hired contractor said there was no need for the couple months i was going to have it setup........if it is a permanent setup with two thousand pounds(like my room). then yes i would look into a permanent bracing solution. i like ckmullin's first idea but i dont think you have to worry about a 80 gallon on one joist next to a foundation wall...but thats just my opinion ,people have called me lazy in the past,so dont hesitate lol Edited March 18, 2012 by Sprucegruve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quetzalcoatl Posted March 18, 2012 Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 I have two 230 gallons on my living room. I was also scared about the weight. I just built a couple columns with 4X4 posts on the basement to support the floor. So far so good, it has been like that for 2 years with no issues. As other people said, I don't think 80 gallons is a big deal. Any average house should be able to handle it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Influence Posted March 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 Sprucegruve . If you have 413 gallons in that room then you have more then 2000 pounds , you would have around 3500 in just water not counting equipment . And from pics I seen its a small room where your joists run short from wall to wall most likely a load barring wall . Mine on the other hand is in the living room where I'm running the length of one joist that is more then 16 feet from wall to load barring wall . Now everyone is most likely right and I'd have nothing to worrie about but I don't want to find out the hard way that I'm wrong . I'm probably just being parinoid lol I think I may take Ckmullins idea Blake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremoose Posted March 18, 2012 Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 Sprucegruve . If you have 413 gallons in that room then you have more then 2000 pounds , you would have around 3500 in just water not counting equipment . And from pics I seen its a small room where your joists run short from wall to wall most likely a load barring wall . Mine on the other hand is in the living room where I'm running the length of one joist that is more then 16 feet from wall to load barring wall . Now everyone is most likely right and I'd have nothing to worrie about but I don't want to find out the hard way that I'm wrong . I'm probably just being parinoid lol I think I may take Ckmullins idea Blake You are just being paranoid. Unless the joists or sheets on the floor have some sort of structural damage to them already you have nothing to worry about. This is coming from a residential contractor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckmullin Posted March 18, 2012 Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 I guess people are talking about subcontractors and contractors...I guess I'll say one of my own previous hats. I was a new build framer as well as a renovator for a time in my life. So I do know what i'm talking about. I agree with jeremoose...nothing really needs to be done. However the joist cross-bracing is never a bad idea and is something that can easily be done by the homeowner to improve their house. One of the first tasks I do in a new home is to do that. Just took this earlier today. 1st floor joists in my current house Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceturf Posted March 18, 2012 Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 (edited) I'd like to make a few comments on this topic. A regular floor design is modified for bathrooms on account of the weight of the tubs. Ei, an extra joist gets thrown in under the tub to help support the load. Practically speaking, a tank of a size 50 gallons and up weighs more than a tub, in the respect that a tub is about man sized and spreads out the weight more. You are right to want to spread out the weight across multiple joist, that is exactly what you are supposed to do with large point loads. Similarly, grand pianos which have a large weight have that weight exerted upon but a few small legs; you may also notice many such pianos being elevated in homes, this is due to a false floor to spread out the weight. The point is that a floor can support a grand piano, numerous large tvs and furniture, but only as the weight is spread out over the whole of the floor. All this I'm sure you all know, and fairly obvious, but I thought I would bring it up again anyways. In this case, and in regards to the other comments You can put the tank over one joist and have it's weight across three. That is, the subfloor will transfer the load across adjacent joist. However, you are best off putting in a tele-post. This is the best, long term solution. It may looks ugly, or funny, but gets the job done. You could throw in an extra joist or two, but I would imagine that pipes, electrical wires, etc, would make such an action fairly impractical. If you do put in a telepost (which I think you should, wood or metal), you should put in squash blocks through the width between adjacent joists to spread out the stress. This should be done in a particular way as to best reinforce. Even if the floor right there is strong enough, the reason a tele-post will work best long term is that floors over time sag. This sagging isn't necessarily a structural problem, as wood will naturally over 60+ years adjust to a permanent new shape based upon a constant load. However, this could be a problem since it would be in one spot. Sever sagging can lead to structural failure, but I think that is far from the situation and the problem would be more aesthetic (over many many years). However, point and case, man owns top floor in apartment complex. Removes teleposts during remodeling. New code makes it necessary to have a water reservoir on the top of the building for fire sprinkler reserve. The floors are concrete. It takes 14-15 years for the rebar to stretch to a point of failure based upon the new loads. The teleposts are never re-added. About 15 years later, the building's top floor undergoes structural failure, resulting in the collapse of all floors below. The above comment about structural failure is worst case scenario, which is far from what you are proposing. But still slightly pertinent. For an 80 gallon tank though, its essentially 5 larger built people in one spot. I don't think this would be the end of the world, or your floor by doing nothing. I would make the stand spread out the force as much as possible though if you do nothing (double top plate and bottom plate). On a different note, Sprucegruve, I find it interesting that your friends comment that it won't be a problem for a couple of months. This is true. Over a relatively shorter period of time, large loads may not be a problem. But I think mainly is the fact that you have 400 gallons not all in one tank. Quetzalcoatl I have two 230 gallons on my living room. I was also scared about the weight. I just built a couple columns with 4X4 posts on the basement to support the floor. So far so good, it has been like that for 2 years with no issues. As other people said, I don't think 80 gallons is a big deal. Any average house should be able to handle it. 400+ gallons is definitely getting up there, very good of you to have put in posts. Curious, did you put the posts to the subfloor, of to the bottom of the joist or ?? If you put the posts just to the joist, I would squash block to prevent the joist from flattening or bending. Something to note, clearspan joist, or continuous joist with a beam in the middle of a house, not necessarily near the load on either side of the house, are often stronger than bunch of shorter sections. This is due to the weight from one side counteracting the weight on the other side. However, this extra 'strength' is often ignore from strength calculations and can be seen as an extra margin of safety. Interesting thing, if you ever put up a beam for any purpose, try get plies that span as much if not all of the distance as possible, vs the a common method of overlap. Its stronger and uses less material. Though finding wood lengths for the job becomes problematic. Edited March 18, 2012 by Iceturf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceturf Posted March 18, 2012 Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 (edited) I guess my reply is getting a little long, but I want this to be comprehensive to everyone out there. Unlike myself, with my largest tank being 20 gallons, I'm sure many of you enjoy large aquariums out there. (and have the space for (: ) ckmullin IF you have full access to the joists do this and you will not need any sort of telepost. Want to do some good dyi...do this across your entire floor @ three foot spaces. You will give your house an improvement and up resale. If you do this...use pl construction adhesive with 3" screws. ... I was a new build framer as well as a renovator for a time in my life. So I do know what i'm talking about. You know is surprises me by how little this is done now adays. I think that since its not generally absolutely required, its often skipped in house construction. (Ok, I don't know if this step is actually skipped in most home construction, but from people I've talked to its usually an extra). This is good building practice, I tip my hat to you. The reason that this bracing is valuable is due to breakdown of force components. If joists are not installed perfectly plumb, then force is applied to the joist against their axis of strength. And lets face it, nothing is ever perfect. These cross-braces will not make your joist stronger than they already are, but they will make sure that strength is best applied by preventing further twisting and spreading out twisting forces across multiple members. Similarly, never ever cut the top flange of I joists (those ones which have some like 2x3 at the top and bottom, with a composite board usually very thin in the middle) and avoid drilling holes near the ends of joist. The bending moment is greatest in the middle, but least near the edges and shear force tends to be greater near the edges than in the middle. The force is carried by the top and bottom in the middle, and transferred by the middle to the supports near the ends. Also, if you do this, it would be best to predrill the holes, with a bit the size of the screw shaft or so. Worst thing you can do it plug a big screw in there and have the joist split. Very possible depending upon the wood, humidity and age. 3" may be a bit long, I would have to see the size of the cross braces. Make sure that you don't send a screw into the same position from both sides. With a screw as long as 3" you run a high risk of hitting the other one and then causing a split. Ok sorry, I'm getting off topic. Cross bracing would be a good thing to do. However, it won't make the joist themselves stronger, just let them get closer to their 'ideal' potential. Edited March 18, 2012 by Iceturf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceturf Posted March 18, 2012 Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 (edited) Oh! Ha. Almost forgot. You can put in a wood column or build one up with 2x6's if you can't find a metal tele for the job. My dad bought a number of tele's a while ago from another member on here. I think he has some extra. He might be willing to part with one. I'm surprised the local hardware stores are out, but I know I've seen them around places like Totem ( as mentioned above) before. Sometimes I find the stuff your looking for is put in the strangest of sections at the store. --- Do you have access to the floor joist from below? -- I don't know if my verbal diarrhea is of help to you or not, but I hope whatever you decide works out. Edited March 18, 2012 by Iceturf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprucegruve Posted March 18, 2012 Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 Sprucegruve . If you have 413 gallons in that room then you have more then 2000 pounds , you would have around 3500 in just water not counting equipment . And from pics I seen its a small room where your joists run short from wall to wall most likely a load barring wall . Mine on the other hand is in the living room where I'm running the length of one joist that is more then 16 feet from wall to load barring wall . Now everyone is most likely right and I'd have nothing to worrie about but I don't want to find out the hard way that I'm wrong . I'm probably just being parinoid lol I think I may take Ckmullins idea Blake yup your right way more than 2000 pounds in my little room.....i was just trying to give an example of the weight i have Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Influence Posted April 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 So after reading all of your posts I thought it would be safe to go ahead and leave it where it was . Not so much after doing so my dog ran past the tank and literally caused a title wave ! So now iv emptied out about 30 gallons and if I stand in front of my tank and shake my leg you can get the water sloshing around so support is indeed needed ! I took a short clip just to show what little movment does . Oh and I know there is to be bounce in the floor but this seems a little much http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x435/Evil_Influence/97642d07.mp4 Blake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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