breeding tip

[dunl]

I never thought to post this earlier, but I should have. Tomorrow is the new moon, which is an excellent time to get your cichlids breeding. I have found that success can usually be had by combining a few techniques....

1) Stop feeding them for a week. Wow. Best tip I ever received from our very own African Fever. This helps females who have collected some fatty deposits to lose them and make room for eggs. That's a good thing.

2) Let water changes go a little (I skip one before new or full moon), and then follow with a massive water change on the day of the new moon.

3) Throw them something DIFFERENT for food. No, they don't NEED to be kept exclusively on NLS at this point to get them to breed. I'm not saying NLS isn't an excellent food. The idea here is to CHANGE the usual day to day things, so that your cichlids go "Hey, I'm in the mood and I don't know why!" :thumbs:

It's a little late to do the one week fast,but give em a huge water change, throw in some fresh food, and see what happens. Worst case scenario is that you gave them a good water change, and they got something different to eat that night.

BTW, when I say massive water changes, I give my mbuna only enough room to keep swimming if I'm trying to keep them breeding. They're pretty indestructible when it comes to this, although haps need to be carefully monitored as there is more chance for temperature change, which they don't seem to weather as well as the mbuna.

HTH some of you.

Dunl :bow:

[RD.]

IMO there's no need to fast your fish for a week, or change their diet, or perform such large scale water changes in order to get your fish in the mood for breeding. Most females need to bulk up on protein in order to produce eggs, not the opposite. Of course if one tends to overfeed, then yes, cutting back on food can help.

My advice for successful breeding ...... limit the number of species in your tank, feed them a quality diet, and keep the water clean. Then check out Don G's fishroom sometime & see the results of a program like that first hand.

IMO one of the largest mistakes made when it comes to breeding, is keeping too many species in a tank that's barely large enough to hold a single species. One good alpha male, and a harem of healthy females, should keep you in fry year round.

[African_Fever]

Neil, the whole fasting for a week is because most people overfeed their fish, even when they think they aren't (I know I still do with many of mine). Everyone is always looking for the 'healthy' look, with a full belly etc., but I think that most people would be shocked at how much thinner wild fish are in their overall body structure. Mbuna are actually supposed to be much thinner than almost every one I've ever seen in captivity; they're not supposed to be sausage shaped, rather taller and almost more 'hap-like' in body composition. It's almost always something that's worked for me whenever I've had fish that just don't seem to want to breed.

[RD.]

I understand Kyle, my point was simply if one doesn't stuff their fish to begin with, then there should be no need to fast them for an entire week in order to get them to breed. Most people are shocked when they see how small my adult labs are, yet they breed like rabbits. (with no frozen foods, or change in diet) I know Ryan doesn't supplement his feeding, or perform such massive water changes, and he's always got holding females in his tanks.

While fasting an adult fish for a week certainly won't hurt them, and could help condition an otherwise overweight female, IMO performing such large scale water changes (to where they have just enough water left to swim in), especially after skipping a week or two of water changes, has the potential to cause more harm, than good. In some peoples tanks the sudden drastic change in water parameters could send their fish into major osmoregulatory distress.

[African_Fever]

-01-

- good point on the water changes. I've never done any that large unless I thought something was drastically wrong with my water.

Edited February 28, 2006 by African_Fever

[Vallisneria]

I have found that water changes do help induce breeding. My fish are always spawning right after my water changes. I don't do them as large as Dunl, mine are about 30% but it seems to help "get them in the mood".

But it seems that with most malawi species all you need to do to get them to breed is to have a male and some females, add water and voila

[RD.]

I have found that water changes do help induce breeding. My fish are always spawning right after my water changes.

No argument there. I get the same results with a 40-50% water change, but overall my water parameters stay relatively stable, even after performing a water change. With massive water changes comes the risk of instability, which in some cases can cause far more harm, than good.

[HOSStile]

I never thought to post this earlier, but I should have. Tomorrow is the new moon, which is an excellent time to get your cichlids breeding. I have found that success can usually be had by combining a few techniques....

HTH some of you.

Dunl :bow:

OK now tell us how we get them to stop!!! :shock:

JK In my office tank I have 4 females holding right now, they are almost impossible to get out because of all the rockwork, I managed to bring one red Zebra girl home to have her kids in a 10 gal. I am going to have to tear the office tank down soon to get all the juveys of 5 different species out of the tank, who managed to escape predation. I feed the same all the time and do one third W.C weekly because of the amount of fish in this tank.

[dunl]

Gee Neil, why did I think you'd be the first one to reply?

Of course if everyone fed their fish correctly there would be no need for a week of fasting, but like Kyle pointed out, most people do - even when they think they don't. There's no need for everyone to plug their vehicle in for the whole night when 30 minutes will do, but that doesn't happen either, does it?

If your water changes are done on a regular basis, there shouldn't be any harm in doing a large water change, as your water parameters should be fairly similar, even if left for a week. Now, if you're not running proper filtration and one week affects your water quality, then you might want to reconsider. And no, you don't need to do as large of a water change as I do, but that's what I have found has worked for me. As long as the water is de-chlorinated properly and the PH level is the same, plus proper temperature, there shouldn't be anything to shock them.

The idea I was getting across was how to stimulate your cichlids to breed...I guess I COULD have just posted a thread stating "In order to get your cichlids to breed you need to take proper care of them",and leave it at that...... but that wasn't the point here. I was looking at it as a method to induce breeding at a certain time, that being with the lunar cycle.

[RD.]

I dunno Darcy, why did you?

As previously stated, I'm not overly concerned about fasting fish for a week, but IMO recommending such massive large scale water changes is not very sound advice. And this is coming from someone who performs fairly large weekly water changes.

The idea that proper filtration has anything to do with the average established tanks water parameters simply doesn't make any sense. While proper filtration will keep ones ammonia & nitrites in check, and keep the water clearer for viewing, there are many other parameters that one should be aware of within a closed system.

As nitrate levels rise between water changes, the overall alkalinity of the tank water drops, which causes the pH to drop, the GH & KH will also usually drop, minerals & trace elements will become depleted, the TDS will usually fluctuate, and phosphate levels usually rise. Also, water straight from the tap will seldom match the pH of existing tank water, as it usually requires approx 12-24 hrs to aerate before the pH levels off. In some cases, with a massive water change such as you have suggested, this could mean a rise in pH from 7.5 to 8.0, overnight. (with your fish in the tank) And that's just the pH. Fluctuating TDS levels can cause far more osmoregulatory stress in a fish, than a shift in pH. The fact that they aren't gasping at the surface, doesn't mean that they aren't under stress.

Depending on the size of the tank, the number & size of fish in the tank, the amount one feeds, and the parameters of the local tap water, there can be a major swing in water parameters when performing such a large scale water change, even if one was to use stored tap water that had been pre-treated, pre-heated, and aerated.

I've always been an advocate of large weekly water changes, but not to the tune of 80-90% such as you suggest, for the reasons stated above. YMMV

Edited February 28, 2006 by RD.

[Reza]

Hi Neil, what is TDS a measurement of please?

[RD.]

Total dissolved solids.

Here's a good read on the subject of TDS.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=84883

[Reza]

Thanks Neil.

[RD.]

No problem Reza.

While I may not agree with everything posted in that link above, there's some good points made with regards to pH & TDS, and the potential for osmotic stress in our fish. I personally feel that there's a lot of unknowns that still need to be examined more closely. How much stress each individual fish in our tanks can safely handle, is pretty much a crap shoot, so I prefer to keep the overall stress levels in my tanks as low as possible. One thing that I think that most fish keepers can agree on, stability within a closed system is always a good thing.

[Reza]

OK, my head is spinning, no pH shock, net fish straight from bag into tank!!!!!

So the best way to move a new fish is to net it straight out of the bag into a bucket of tank water (from your QT) and then net into the QT itself. Is the temperature a big issue?

Oh, if you haven't read Neil's link the reason for the above is to prevent any pathogens contained on the outside of the bag from entering your tanks and to get the fish out of a nitrite rich bag of water ASAP. Neil please correct me if I am wrong.

Pathogens on the outside of the bag picked up from wet "bagging" tables is a very good point that I have never thought about. Just think about the water on the bagging tables at most of the Edm fish stores.

Thanks for the info Neil. A practice I will have to adopt. Just concerned about temp fluctuations.

Dunl, sorry for hijacking your thread.

Edited February 28, 2006 by Reza