My tank got a couple of Questions.

[RickJordan]

I included a couple of pics of my tank. I recently got into African Cichlids. I decided to go all Male Tank. It's a 54 Gallon Corner. I made the mistake of overfeeding the first week and got Malawi Bloat. I medicated with Metridiazol without Carbon. After a week of med and feeding cutbacks they seem back to normal. Ok I hear alot of discussion about overfeeding. I would like to know some other opinions on how much to feed 7 peacocks (Juveniles) and 1 Yellow lab & 2 Clown Loaches in a 54 Gallon tank like mine. I was feeding three times per day ( the dumbass I am) anyways I now feed once per day a Sizeable pinch of Veggie Flake by HBH. I also have NLS pellets which I'm working into diet slowly. I also once every 2 weeks give them some Mysis Shrimp for a treat. Any thoughts on me fasting my fish? How long can a cichlid go without food? I don't want another recurrence of bloat. Water is good, Have Salt in water also,As well as elevated water temperature. Also on a tank that size how much water should I change out every week. Lately I've been doing 20% every 5 days or so. Any thought on me upping that or lessing it. Got 1 Rena Filstar XP2 for Filtration. Any other advice would be great.

Thanks.

Species List I have

A_jacobfreibergi_mamelela

A_sp_lwanda

A_stuartgranti_ngara

A_Maisoni

L_caeruleus

A_sp_Rubescens

copadichromis_azureus

lethrinops_redcap

2 Clown Loaches

[Reza]

Very nice tank Rick. I would think that once the overfeeding is corrected your water change schedule would be great, maybe even only once a week as the Renas seem to provide very good biological filtration, for me anyway.

[FishBrain]

Very nice setup!!

I do weekly water changes at 50%, Each and every tank gets the same treatment

GL

[Vallisneria]

Nice looking tank :thumbs:

How long can a cichlid go without food?

They can go for a pretty long time. Holding females don't eat for 3-4 weeks.

I usually feed once a day and only a couple pinches of NLS. Unless your fish are fry/small juvies they dont' need to be fed 3 times a day.

Lately I've been doing 20% every 5 days or so

That sounds like a good amount. I do about 30-40% every 1- 1.5 weeks. Just keep an eye on your tanks water parameters since each tank is different. My tank might do fine with 30% weekly but someone elses might need 30% every coupld days.

[Vapor]

I change twenty five to thirty percent every weekend on all tanks. I feed twice a day. Morning and night. I just judge on thier habits. I put a little at first and if they go crazy I add a little more, if they show little intrest I don't add anymore.

[RickJordan]

One More Question! I'm trying to introduce NLS pellets into my Juv's diet. How gradual should I introduce NLS into diet or should I wait till Juv's are bigger to start them on Pellets in other words keep em on Veggie Flake. Also is it true that full size takes about 2 years or is it less. Thanks for all the info so far.

Rick

[RDFISHGUY]

Your flake food is like candy to your fish. As long as you feed them that they are less likely to take to the NLS. When I switched over I cut them off other foods completely. My fish are now happy and healthy. I feed once or twice a day about what they'll eat in a minute. I would say that growth depends on the environment and food that fish eat. Two years is about right for smaller haps and Mbuna. Larger haps take longer.

Edited March 1, 2006 by RDFISHGUY

[RickJordan]

Ok the problem I have with switching completely to NLS pellets all in one shot is that they are guaranteed to give my fish Bloat. How do I know this, Not only have numerous peeps told me this but the day I actually added NLS to tank my mbuna's ate it all and the next day they had signs of bloat. Isn't it true that any drastic change in water or diet can induce stress and therefore bloat. Switching all the way over in one day seems to worry me with all those factors in mind. I'd like to hear more opinions before I take action. Also your quote about Veggie Flake being "Candy" Well Cichlids are herbivores so I don't understand how Veggie Flake can be "Candy" it's more like a staple diet thing. Even if NLS is better quality food which it is I'm sure both should be able to be used longterm with no side effects.

[Vallisneria]

I'm sure Neil will come around and explain veggie flake vs. NLS but i thoght i'd chime in.

Also your quote about Veggie Flake being "Candy" Well Cichlids are herbivores so I don't understand how Veggie Flake can be "Candy" it's more like a staple diet thing

First off, the fish you have listed are not totally herbivores. Labs are not strict herbivores and therefore can handle more protein foods then a lot of other mbuna. Peacocks and Haps can also take a lots more protein in their diets. Plus the "veggie" flake you are feeding probably has a fraction of the veggie content that NLS does.

When i switched over to using NLS i didn't bother slowly switching over, I did it all in one shot. I never had problems and i was keeping labs, othe rmbuna and haps. Never once did they show any health problems and i've never once had bloat.

When your fish are showing sings of bloat the next day what exactly is happening to them? How do you know they have bloat?

[Zagz]

I switched my cichlids over to NLS with no weaning off of the other food as well. Had no signs of bloat whatsoever. They took to it like crazy. I have a mix of peacocks, some mbuna and 3 haps.

[RD.]

Rick - trust me, the peeps that told you that obviously don't know clue one about the dietary requirements of fish, especially African cichlids. Also, your fish most likely didn't show signs of bloat ..... "bloat" is the final stage of an outbreak of internal pathogens, and at that stage you can usually kiss them good-bye. NLS will not cause bloat in any fish, period, unless you are dumping handfuls of pellets in at a time. I have scores of customers who have switched their fish over to NLS all in one shot, including species that are considered by the 'peeps' to be the very strictest of herbivores, such as Tropheus moorii (and this includes wild caught specimens) and none of them had any issues whatsover with the change in diet. My only advice, feed very lightly for the first few days, then resume with your normal feeding schedule. You can continue to use your HBH flakes as well, that's your call.

In the wild African cichlids are opportunistic feeders, and even the most specialized feeders will eat pretty much anything that looks like food to them, including Hippo dung if it floats by. These fish aren't nearly as sensitive to diet as most of the peeps will have you believe. All of the exporters of wild caught Africans feed a generic fish meal based flake food (with very little if any 'greens' in it) and none of those exporters have bloat issues.

Perhaps this will help explain things better: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/new_life_spectrum.php

[dunl]

The "bloat" you are hearing about, Rick, is caused by people not understanding the amount of food contained in a pellet compared to flakes. The fish don't understand that either, so they eat as much pellets as the amount of flake they are used to. When they think they are full, they stop.

Unfortunately, they can know themselves off by gorging on the pellets in the beginning. There's absolutely no harm in switching straight to pellets, and feeding small amounts the first few days. Better they are hungry, than dead.

[RickJordan]

Well it seems that everyone is in agreement about switching over all in one shot. I think I was concerned about diet change being a stress factor therefore causing Bloat. You were right though signs of bloat are near the later stages of digestive problems. With those small pellets from NLS have you guys been presoaking them or just dumping them in? I did notice a very full belly probly not bloat but just full looking.

Anyways thanks for all the advice on monday I'll try and switch over completely. Also just a note I realize that Peacocks and Labs are not completely herbivores and I do add Mysis every once in a while to their diet.

Any advice on how to feed Clown loaches seperatly or just let them eat cichlid stuff. The sinking shrimp pellets worked good but I'm worried the cichlid will grab hold of them there kinda big.

Edited March 2, 2006 by RickJordan

[RD.]

Rick - no need to pre-soak the pellets, and to do so can be counter productive as water soluble vitamins & trace minerals can leach out of the food. Clown loaches will thrive on the NLS pellets, as will any species that will eat them.

[lordofthefish]

A quote from Ad Konings' "Enjoying Cichlids" 2nd Edition. Kjell Fohrman writes, "Another factor that may lead to upset intestines in your cichlids is a sudden change in the type of food. If you have fed your fishes for a long period with quickly digestible food, such as flake food for instance, and then in the space of a day switch to e.g. Mysis (a highly recommended fish food), the fishes may have initial problems and be particularly vulnerable to diseases. Even when new food is much better and closer to the natural food of the cichlids you must change their diet gradually."

Kjell Fohrman has over 25 years keeping cichlids including being the president of the Scandinavian Cichlid Association and the editor of "Ciklidbladet". He also publishes the "Back to Nature" books.

Here is a prime example of "peeps" who clearly know nothing about the dietary requirements of fish or more specifically african cichlids. Obviously, I am being sarcastic.

I also remember reading a post on the NLS forums in which RD also initially gradually switched his fish over to straight NLS feedings. He was simply being careful, and rightly so with the quality of fish he was dealing with.

I am not attempting to attack the quality of NLS (lest I be murdered online), only to suggest that there is nothing wrong with being careful in feeding your fish. Carefully switching over to NLS will not hurt the fish and many experts agree that variety is a good thing.

You can see the proof of the NLS in the pictures. Fish thrive and explode in colour with this food. But you can also find pictures of stunning fish that have never been fed NLS but a variety of other foods.

I think it is okay for people to be careful with their fish. Nothing Rick is doing will kill his fish. I don't think that we need to attack people who have kept cichlids successfully for many years and continue to be leaders in this area.