Fishy dying issues

[krazy_Karma]

Wouldnt the Ammonia be up if the Nitrites were up? I have three filters in this tank, two are larger which fit this tank, the smaller one I added from a previously cycled tank....The filters the larger ones were put in another tank I had for two weeks before they went on this one....then it ran for a week with some shrimp and feeder fish in the tank, Then I checked Ammonia and it was at 0, so then I added my fish, this tank before the fish were put in was loaded with Stability, and Prime...Prime being added the day before the fish went in, and then a regular dose a few hours before putting the fish in.

The test kit I have is a Hagen.

Lisa

[Ishkabod]

first off i've successfully saved possibly two cichlids from bloat in the early stages useing Epsom salt.

I'm thinking though that you contaminated the filter with disease from the feeder fish you used to jump start the 80 gallon.

Epsom salt reduces stress and is a laxative so bloat is less likely to happen.

Also you didn't say you checked the nitrite levils before you added the fish so the cycle could have been in a nitrIte spike stage.

Check the nitrAte levils asap because that is what will build up in the tank and stress then kill the fish without adequate water changes.

NitrAte levels are waaayyyy more important to measure than nitrIte levils after the tank has cycled as it indicates if the cycle is complete and when and how much of a water change you need to do

Here are a couple of links

Cichlid lake buffer recipie (epsom salt doseage)

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/buffer_recipe.php

Disease Info Cichlid specific

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/fish_health_list.php

Cichlid Info my fish wouldn't live without aka BOOKMARK :thumbs:

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/

Good luck and i hope something here helps

Lisa

P.S. regardless of what my blerb says I do have a cichlid tank.

P.P.S. next time i'd get those other filters going on the first tank before moving them because you aren't increasing the tank load just the water capacity that needs to be filtered.

Edited September 28, 2008 by Ishkabod

[geleen]

Ishkabod[/b]

Also you didn't say you checked the nitrite levils before you added the fish so the cycle could have been in a nitrIte spike stage.

Check the nitrAte levils asap

Quote] krazy_Karma

Nitrites can take up to 6 weeks to establish. Ammonia eating bacteria much faster. I stand by my original guess that your tank is not cycled. Stability added daily will help.

Maybe squeeze some sponges from your other tank into your filter that should help.

Try to keep the NitrAtes below 25 by WC.

J

[Qattarra]

What often happens to new fish keepers is impatience . I know , I did it too. The cycle takes a lot of time . Although with seeding the bacterias this can go faster, it still takes time . I would suspect none of the tanks are fully cycled. I think new tanks are started before the previous one was actually fully cycled and therefore there really isn't the bacteria for seeding the new one. IMHO don't add any more fish for at least 2 months. Let nature take it's course. Nurse the current inhabitants through the spikes to come, get everyone healthy and happy. I could be way off base but I don't think so.

Edited September 28, 2008 by Qattarra

[krazy_Karma]

I have kept track of the Ammonia levels the entire time and they have stayed at 0, without increasing what so ever, the Nitrites I also checked and they were the lowest level that this kit came with, Nitrates were the same, at the lowest possible level, as for the one comment stating that you didnt think any of my tanks were cycled, well Ive had 3 tanks up and running since June, one tank was bought full of fish second hand, she had it for 2 years up and running, so yes ALL my other tanks are fully cycled... That is why I put my filters in my other tank because I knew it was cycled and to get the good bacteria on the filters before getting everything up and rolling...the filters sat in that other tank for at least two weeks, it could of been 3 even, I kept several of my feeder fish and they are healthy and look great in my tetra tank...so no they did not pollute my filters... As I said there are three filters on this tank, one is only for a 50 gal but I only have it on this tank for the good bacteria, Ive not lost any more fish and they all look great now...Ive added salt, bubble wall ... which is my thought, as I only had the one lil air stone, I dont think that lil airstone was enough for this large tank, that and I dont think I had enough salt in the water for my fish, but now everything seems fine...so what ever it was its done now...Because my water levels tested normal I knew it wasnt that, which is why I came to the group for other suggestions, which I didnt get many seemed most everyone had one thought in their head...oh well.

Lisa

[firestorm]

I think maybe you added too many fish too soon to the new tank. Yes you put a seeded filter on the tank, and yes you put rocks in. But the substrate also holds alot of beneficial bacteria, which to me it sounds like the seeded filter alone wasn't enough to keep on top of things. Even in an established tank you should not add too many fish at once, cause this will also affect the nitrogen cycle. But all in all, I think the fish died from New tank syndrome, and yes it can happen even a few months after it has been set up. So I really have to slightly agree with some of the other answers on this. Don't worry, we are not here to lecture you, but to help you understand how it all works so you can learn from this mistake and know what to do for next time. I was in your shoes once too and we all were, and have probably all lost fish from NTS. I really can't see it being any diseases brought into your tank, other than malawi bloat....but you would have lost many more fish than you did if you didn't treat this disease with meds, it has happened to me. Salt is a great thing to use to help detoxify nitrites and nitrates in your aquarium if the levels are too high, and nothing beats doing extra water changes if you have to

[Frank]

And this is why I do not say a thing..lol

Some good info there from alot of good people.

[krazy_Karma]

First for the ugly, if your name is frank and you live in Rocky Mountain house, dont waste my time any more!!!

Okay now for my FRIENDS, one thing I think I forgot to add right away was the salt, so that was what I was thinking caused some of the fish to die, Ive not lost any since my Polit female, and man she was a nice fish, darn sakes, I think I lost 4 out of the 30 that I have, so not that bad I guess, the Ammonia, Nitrates and Nitrites were always low and in the perfect range, now one thing is true all the substrate was all brand new, that was really the only new thing in the tank, as the filters were seeded, and then the older filter added, all the rocks from the old tank and the driftwood all were moved at the time I moved the fish...One thing is true, I didnt know I should of only moved 1/3 of the fish at a time...no one ever tells you these things till its to late...LOL

Funny I had a similar conversation with a horse trainer, told her there was no "how to" books should you get into trouble, not like a car, when you take your learners that lil manual has some hints should you get into this predicament...but nothing like that when it comes to our critters...haha

Lisa

[firestorm]

The problem with a manual is there will always be people who disagree completely with what it says. There is no real right and wrong way with keeping fish, and some will base their knowledge strictly on a set of "rules" you should follow. Personally some of the rules makes sense, but do not necessarily have to be followed right down to the bone. Experimenting doesn't hurt, but in the end it is sometimes safer to follow certain guidelines. I know, when I first started out too things really sucked and I always screwed up with many things. You learn as you go along, and you finally start to realize what works and what doesn't. Not all things will work for one person and the same thing for another. But I really only think the problems occurred because you added all the fish at once. But now you know for next time, and don't worry, I have done the same thing in the past....only to lose alot of money and beautiful fish in the process. Glad to hear they are feeling better, and I have a female polit holding right now, so if you want her babies I can certainly hold them for ya. Don't know yet how many she's got in there lol.

[Vallisneria]

In the future, if you want to be safe, then do a quick fishless cycle on the tank. Setup the tank, move over the used filter and decorations and then add a bit of ammonia. Once the tank can handle the ammonia, you can be sure its cycled enough to handle the fish. That way you don't have to only move a 1/3 of them and hope its cycled enough to handle them.

It should only take a few days and then you dont' have to worry as much.

[krazy_Karma]

I might be interested in just one or two Polits, I dont want to over load this tank, I have no where else to put another tank...LOL, between the bird cages, dog kennels and fish tanks my living room is more like a tropical jungle, specially after the kids get to it...haha

As for the cycle I had done a live cycle with feeder fish and some shrimp oh and even had some pond lettuce in there...the tank had a bit of everything, the feeder fish were nice, I even had to save a couple to put in my tetra tank...haha

I think that I might of had two issues, too many fish at once and failing to add the salt which added to the stress of the already stressed fish...again, Im not sure I will ever know for sure, but next time I move fish I will do it very slowly to try to make it a better transition.

How big are Polits before they start to hold? This whole breeding thing is something I wish I knew more about, I know my OBs are big enough for breeding but IM not sure if I have one male and one female or two males or two females...I think my electric yellows I have one male and one female, and I m thinking my red zebras there is two female and one male as one of them is a pinkish orange with the lower fins bieng blue now...I dont really care if they bred or dont breed, I just love the different colors in the tank.

But would be nice to know the breeding things just in case.

Lisa

[Parachromis1]

My Nitrites are always 0, but my Nitrates are usually just under 10 ppm, this is on a heavily stocked cichlid tank with a sump.

I think the bacteria hasn't colonized very well yet.

PS. Can I see your Argentea?

I would love to.

[jvision]

I think that I might of had two issues, too many fish at once and failing to add the salt which added to the stress of the already stressed fish...again, Im not sure I will ever know for sure, but next time I move fish I will do it very slowly to try to make it a better transition.

I have been keeping fish for quite a while, and have never had to add salt to help w. nitrite poisoning. Lisa, I'm sure what everyone is saying is true, here - you just jumped the gun on your cycle, and overloaded it when you added your fish.

IME, there are 2 ways to do a fast cycle: 1) do the fishless cycle like Degrassi mentioned; 2) FILL the tank with live plants. Otherwise, a cycle will take more than just a few weeks, and you'll go thru a mini cylce pretty much every time you add new fish.

The reason I give this advice is I can tell you'll have more tanks soon - you've got MTS and it's just starting!!!

[firestorm]

Haha, yep, the MTS is just kicking in. I was once where you are :P I had high nitrites once in a tank, I used salt and it saved my a$$. Some of the fish were really looking bad, but after a good water change and adding the salts they were much better, and only lost 1 fish. First hand experience is a bummer, that's for sure.

Polits won't breed until they are at a mature age, which is usually around the size after the male has colored up. I think it might be around 2-3" where they are large enough to start breeding. I do have 1 female holding (at least last time I checked) but she is about full grown. If you want I can give you the fry from her when you come down for the auction, they might not be very big but you can grow them out yourself and see which ones will be males and females, take the rest to the LFS.

If your red zebra has blue fins, it could be possible you have cobalt blue's. How big are your zebras? Red zebras should not have blue fins IME. The males tend to have paler bodies, especially in the tummy area, and they will typically be larger. Females will usually stay a vibrant orange all throughout. Best way to sex zebras is through venting them.

[krazy_Karma]

My Nitrites are always 0, but my Nitrates are usually just under 10 ppm, this is on a heavily stocked cichlid tank with a sump.

I think the bacteria hasn't colonized very well yet.

PS. Can I see your Argentea?

I would love to.

My nitrates are now up a bit so I have been working on that as well, I will get some pictures of it and send them into the group.

Lisa